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Thread: 60 Minutes - F-35

  1. #51
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I have a friend who is the COR (Contracting officer Representative) for a $2 Million per year contact. The contract has roughly 15 people on it. He hasn't even met most of them since none actually work in his office. Since no one has complained he just files a report every month saying things are going great and the contractor keeps getting paid. I wonder what private sector company would spend 2 mil and never actually bother to see what they got?
    Doesn't sound right. Again, I might be geezing, but when I was a COR the contractor had to produce a report of activity/cost/schedule every month. Contracting got one, I got one, user got one. The user also stayed in close touch with me. So did the contractor. If anything came up the comms channels were well-defined and well-used. And in my case, several of us from my office went to the user for a one-day pow-wow, from which everyone came out happy.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    If he is talking about a base level type contract (sounds like that to me) there is quite a difference in contract admiistration to what I think you are referring. If it is a service type contract you don't need to see anyone at the time of inspection unless there is a quality problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by OtisRNeedleman View Post
    Doesn't sound right. Again, I might be geezing, but when I was a COR the contractor had to produce a report of activity/cost/schedule every month. Contracting got one, I got one, user got one. The user also stayed in close touch with me. So did the contractor. If anything came up the comms channels were well-defined and well-used. And in my case, several of us from my office went to the user for a one-day pow-wow, from which everyone came out happy.

  3. #53
    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    Goes without saying that Rumsfeld was probably the worst SecDef in living memory.
    Perhaps I'm older than you, but my living memory includes McNamara. At least he came to see the error of his ways.

    Regarding that Rummy quotation, it's a prima facie truth; you simply do not get to choose the army you go to war with. You can plan to have the most powerful army some day in the future, but when war breaks out you go to war with what you've got.

    Of course, one could also point out that you don't have to choose to start pre-emptive wars, either.
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
    ~Mignon McLaughlin

  4. #54
    Senior Member Capt Alfredo's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by OtisRNeedleman View Post
    How do you figure that?

    Nevertheless, I agree that many of the military assigned to the Agency aren't really needed. I certainly wasn't.

    From what I could tell, even twenty years ago, the Agency civilians somewhat valued the enlisted people and warrant officers for their technical skills. They tolerated O-6 and above because the officers could cause them problems if the civilians gave them too much grief. But we who were O-1 through O-5...in general, neither needed nor wanted. There were some "good" offices for O-1 through O-5 - was in one - but overall my tour at Fort Meade was the tour from hell, for that reason and the personal agonies.
    The people assigned to the squadrons named by AA are funded (for the most part) via the National Intelligence Program, rather than the Military Intelligence Program. For example, when the furloughs hit last year, civilian intel analysts from NIP were spared, whereas the MIP people were out on their keisters. This also explains why the majority of the 1N2/3/4 are exempt from typical Air Force AEF deployments. They can volunteer, but the AEF center can't touch them. 1N0 and 14N are the ones who get crushed because they are mostly MIP people.

    As for your other point, would agree that O-1 - O-5 were pretty much invisible during my decade at the Agency. No need for them and I never had any meaningful interaction with an officer until I became one 12 years in.

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    Senior Member Capt Alfredo's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Perhaps I'm older than you, but my living memory includes McNamara. At least he came to see the error of his ways.

    Regarding that Rummy quotation, it's a prima facie truth; you simply do not get to choose the army you go to war with. You can plan to have the most powerful army some day in the future, but when war breaks out you go to war with what you've got.

    Of course, one could also point out that you don't have to choose to start pre-emptive wars, either.
    You must be a little older, because my first memory of a president was Ford and his last SECDEF was none other than Mr. Rumsfeld.

    As for the Rummy quote, I found it to be remarkably dismissive in light of the "war of choice" upon which we embarked. Perhaps we should have properly outfitted our forces before launching the adventure in the first place.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    You must be a little older, because my first memory of a president was Ford and his last SECDEF was none other than Mr. Rumsfeld.

    As for the Rummy quote, I found it to be remarkably dismissive in light of the "war of choice" upon which we embarked. Perhaps we should have properly outfitted our forces before launching the adventure in the first place.
    My guess is that they assumed we were properly outfitted. They assumed that it would be as "simple" as Desert Storm was. The shock and awe, wrapped up quickly. No need to think long term. Then the "Oh shit, they aren't giving up" hit them.

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    Senior Member Capt Alfredo's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    My guess is that they assumed we were properly outfitted. They assumed that it would be as "simple" as Desert Storm was. The shock and awe, wrapped up quickly. No need to think long term. Then the "Oh shit, they aren't giving up" hit them.
    That's right, we were supposed to be greeted as liberators.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    That's right, we were supposed to be greeted as liberators.
    There were plenty of dissenting voices to Rumsfeld pre-invasion, Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee that "several hundred thousand soldiers" would be needed in Iraq when post-hostilities control was taken into consideration.

    Plus, there were numerous intel estimates that correctly predicted the sectarian violence that would follow an ouster of Saadam.

    Rumsfeld was told what would happen and ignored it.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    If he is talking about a base level type contract (sounds like that to me) there is quite a difference in contract admiistration to what I think you are referring. If it is a service type contract you don't need to see anyone at the time of inspection unless there is a quality problem.
    I was the COR for a work done through an NSA contracting vehicle. Had some other, indirect experience with contracting stuff while serving as a MAJCOM user acquisition manager. No experience with base-level contracts or contracting.

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