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Thread: 60 Minutes - F-35

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    Senior Member CORNELIUSSEON's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    I missed this last Sunday, but I just watched the clip and have to say that 60 Minutes did a good job covering the issue, and I think they were very fair.

    For those of you that haven't been following the F-35 saga, the 60 Minutes segment gives a good overview of some of the major problems with the program.

    There were a lot of things they left out, but how much can you cover in a 13 minute clip.

    My favorite line in the clip was, "Acquisition Malpractice" in reference to the contract order to start purchasing aircraft was issued before flight testing was complete.

    It is worth watching.

    .
    I saw the 60 Minutes piece, and I agree that it was pretty much told the facts. However, the most important fact is the fact that the F-35/35C/35C combination will cost much less overall than the F-22, and the current round of financial cuts the US Military is going through is ample evidence that the Wallet will make the choice easy in the end, not to mention the fact that we will certainly field more Drone aircraft for exactly the same reason (Cost).
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS302 View Post
    This thread is screaming for inputs from Robert F. Dorr.

    I am sure he would advocate re-starting the F-105 Thunderchief line.

    He would then take a massive crap on the "professional" military of today vs the "citizen military" of yesterday.

    Then he'd leave his home mailing address and E-mail address, plug his latest book Eagles and Tomales: The Exploits of the F-15E Strike Eagle Over El Salvador, and then retire from the Internet.
    Don't forget to require all office workers to wear Service Dress everyday...

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by wxjumper View Post
    What do you suggest happens? That we cut the program and start over from scratch? Spend billions and billions of additional dollars developing a new next gen fighter? Because like it or not, these F-15s and F-16s are not going to fly forever and a replacement is going to need to found soon. Whatever has happened in the past doesn't change the fact that the F-35 can be a very capable aircraft, and like it or not, it is all we got right now.
    I think once heard of something called "sunk cost." Another thing to consider is that I'd be willing to bet there are dozens if not scores of other weapons systems out there that have been similarly mis-managed. 100s of millions going to the MIC with the taxpayer getting little to nothing in return. But by all means, let's cut manpower.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    I think once heard of something called "sunk cost." Another thing to consider is that I'd be willing to bet there are dozens if not scores of other weapons systems out there that have been similarly mis-managed. 100s of millions going to the MIC with the taxpayer getting little to nothing in return. But by all means, let's cut manpower.
    Yep, sunk costs. Sort of like spending $567 Million for 21 Cargo planes that were sent straight to the boneyard because the Air Force has no use for them. Even though only 16 have been delivered the other 5 are still on order because...why not? (Begin Sarcasm) I still have to agree that sequestration is the worst thing ever. There is no way the DoD could possibly find any cuts to save money. Maybe we should furlough the civilians and cut military positions (end sarcasm)

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/07...nto-mothballs/

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    I think once heard of something called "sunk cost." Another thing to consider is that I'd be willing to bet there are dozens if not scores of other weapons systems out there that have been similarly mis-managed. 100s of millions going to the MIC with the taxpayer getting little to nothing in return. But by all means, let's cut manpower.
    Serious question for you Capt A:

    You've served in a lot of intel units, many of the same ones as I have.

    I remember a lot of dead weight in those Ft Meade billets, in overseas units, it was less of a problem, but we still had enough to get the job done.

    In the 1N world, I have to say we have always been bloated and can afford to cut people.

    Would you agree?

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by wxjumper View Post
    What do you suggest happens? That we cut the program and start over from scratch? Spend billions and billions of additional dollars developing a new next gen fighter? Because like it or not, these F-15s and F-16s are not going to fly forever and a replacement is going to need to found soon. Whatever has happened in the past doesn't change the fact that the F-35 can be a very capable aircraft, and like it or not, it is all we got right now.
    Arguably the bigger issue is how do we dig ourselves these holes over and over again? Incompetence? Lobbyists? Hidden agendas that have little to do with national defense? Let's not pretend the F-35 is the first program we've goofed from the start, all while throwing more money at the issue while the contractor does what they can to place all the risk on the government, which really means the taxpayers at the end of the day. We don't buy cars without get driving them, but we award multi-billion dollar contracts for planes after playing a game that supposedly simulates our behavior. Brilliant!

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    I'll tell you what I wouldn't be willing to do: award a multi-billion dollar contract for a new fighter after playing a video game that makes said fighter seem pretty awesome.

    Some of us honestly sit and wonder why there are those out there determined to cut the DoD's budget. Why that isn't painfully obvious to everyone, I don't know. Oh well, there's always people and their entitlement to go after, so it's all good.

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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Shove_your_stupid_meeting View Post
    Arguably the bigger issue is how do we dig ourselves these holes over and over again? Incompetence? Lobbyists? Hidden agendas that have little to do with national defense? Let's not pretend the F-35 is the first program we've goofed from the start, all while throwing more money at the issue while the contractor does what they can to place all the risk on the government, which really means the taxpayers at the end of the day. We don't buy cars without get driving them, but we award multi-billion dollar contracts for planes after playing a game that supposedly simulates our behavior. Brilliant!
    The Military Industrial Complex (Eisenhower spoke about it in his farewell address). When war and the tools to wage it become a profitable endeavor for private industry and when relationships are forged between those industrial powers and the political powers that direct money toward them, this will happen over and over again.

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Shove_your_stupid_meeting View Post
    I'll tell you what I wouldn't be willing to do: award a multi-billion dollar contract for a new fighter after playing a video game that makes said fighter seem pretty awesome.

    Some of us honestly sit and wonder why there are those out there determined to cut the DoD's budget. Why that isn't painfully obvious to everyone, I don't know. Oh well, there's always people and their entitlement to go after, so it's all good.
    Save that one for next Thanksgiving, Grandma and Uncle Slyvester like zingers such as that.

    Mistakes were made, I think everyone agrees upon that.

    Bottom line, we need to replace our fighter fleet and moaning about your entitlements isn't going to change that.

    Despite the fact that Grandma and Uncle Slyvester will give you head nods of approval at your often repeated video game wise crack, your analysis of this fiasco is rather shallow.

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    Senior Member BOSS302's Avatar
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    Re: 60 Minutes - F-35

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Save that one for next Thanksgiving, Grandma and Uncle Slyvester like zingers such as that.

    Mistakes were made, I think everyone agrees upon that.

    Bottom line, we need to replace our fighter fleet and moaning about your entitlements isn't going to change that.

    Despite the fact that Grandma and Uncle Slyvester will give you head nods of approval at your often repeated video game wise crack, your analysis of this fiasco is rather shallow.

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