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Thread: Here's my idea.

  1. #41
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I'll never understand why there's an issue with this. If you receive a check from the government, you are essentially a government employee. Every other government employee is subject to pissing in a cup.

    Now I'm all for the government providing rehab for the people receiving assistance. Assistance checks should be tied to attendance. If the people don't show, don't make an effort, then the checks should stop.

    I've heard the claim that drug testing welfare recipients is another racist ploy, just like ID cards. I suppose that's true if one wants to claim that only poor black people use drugs. I highly doubt that is true.
    Thats a funny one since there are more whites on welfare than blacks and to assume that they arent smoking weed or meth is just plain ignorant.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I'll never understand why there's an issue with this. If you receive a check from the government, you are essentially a government employee. Every other government employee is subject to pissing in a cup.
    Not true. Generally, and there may be some exceptions, GS employees are not subject to drug testing. WG employee generally are. Why?

    Employers don't test test people "just because" or they simply want to catch someone in the act, just so they can fire them (unlike those who want drug testing for welfare recipients).

    Employers do this in order to protect themselves from lawsuits, in case someone is injured or killed on the job due to a drug related mishap. Employers have to be able to show that they have programs in place to prevent this.

    Because GS employees are generally white collar, this normally doesn't apply to us. Different story with WG employees.

    Private sector employees may or not drug test ALL of their employees, just for the sake of fairness and holding everyone to the same standard. But that's their prerogative and, in the end, it's to protect themselves in case something happens on the job.

    So... why employers do drug testing can't be used to justify drug testing welfare recipients.

    Now I'm all for the government providing rehab for the people receiving assistance. Assistance checks should be tied to attendance. If the people don't show, don't make an effort, then the checks should stop.
    I can understand this. Because then, the intent is to help people better themselves while they're on assistance. But have you seen any drug testing proposals include such provisions? I haven't.

    I've heard the claim that drug testing welfare recipients is another racist ploy, just like ID cards. I suppose that's true if one wants to claim that only poor black people use drugs. I highly doubt that is true.
    Yes and no. Usually, when you hear many conservatives describe the personalities and habits of people on welfare, they're making reference to stereotypes about blacks, and sometimes Latinos.

    WJ5 brings up the fact that there are more whites than blacks on welfare.

    But, we've discussed this before: there is a HUGE difference between how whites and minorities view the poor among them.

    If you're white and poor and live in the trailor park, conservative upper and middle class whites are ashamed of you. You're a blight on their race. If they want to target blacks and Latinos in yanking welfare, they'll have no problem doing it... even if that means that poor whites end up being collateral damage.

    Blacks and Latinos are a bit more inclusive when it comes to socioeconomics among their own - but don't get it twisted, because I DO believe that it's to a fault... where middle and upper class blacks and Latinos will dumb themselves down for their poor, instead of making it the other way around instead.

    But the point is this... race may or may not be a factor in the drug testing of welfare. The fact that whites may be affected can't be used to discredit that. Not that you're saying that, but obviously WJ5 is.

    Quote Originally Posted by WILDJOKER5 View Post
    Thats a funny one since there are more whites on welfare than blacks and to assume that they arent smoking weed or meth is just plain ignorant.
    So people on welfare MUST be doing drugs? I knew from the beginning that this was an "ah ha, gotcha" thing. We've already seen that only 2% popped positive in Florida. what next?

    I know: they're going to come up with something else that they think people on welfare are doing, and try to catch them in the act of doing THAT. And if that doesn't work, you come up with another assumption. Anything to justify sticking to those leeches of society!
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  3. #43
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Yes and no. Usually, when you hear many conservatives describe the personalities and habits of people on welfare, they're making reference to stereotypes about blacks, and sometimes Latinos.
    Wow, this is a pretty bold statement that no conservative ever references. Its only libs that bring race into an arguement when it comes to government handouts being cut. But thanks for showing your own stereotyping of others, even though it isnt true.
    WJ5 brings up the fact that there are more whites than blacks on welfare.

    But, we've discussed this before: there is a HUGE difference between how whites and minorities view the poor among them.
    If you're white and poor and live in the trailor park, conservative upper and middle class whites are ashamed of you. You're a blight on their race. If they want to target blacks and Latinos in yanking welfare, they'll have no problem doing it... even if that means that poor whites end up being collateral damage.

    Blacks and Latinos are a bit more inclusive when it comes to socioeconomics among their own - but don't get it twisted, because I DO believe that it's to a fault... where middle and upper class blacks and Latinos will dumb themselves down for their poor, instead of making it the other way around instead.

    But the point is this... race may or may not be a factor in the drug testing of welfare. The fact that whites may be affected can't be used to discredit that. Not that you're saying that, but obviously WJ5 is.
    I might have missed this, but are you talking about how whites who are the right tell poor whites to stop making excuses for being poor, as do blacks on the right say the same thing to poor blacks? I dont think its a racial thing, more of a political thing. You only distinguished white as being left or right. What do lefty whites think about the poor whites living in trailer parks?

    But you dont seem to see that there are minorities on the right that say the exact samething as the whites do about their own race. It looks more like to me that Liberals would rather just playcate the poor and buy their votes (white or minority) with government handouts while the right tries get out of the way for business owners so the private sector can hire the poor. We see this time and time again, Obamacare is prime example right now.
    So people on welfare MUST be doing drugs? I knew from the beginning that this was an "ah ha, gotcha" thing. We've already seen that only 2% popped positive in Florida. what next?
    Did I say it was because they were poor? No.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by WILDJOKER5 View Post
    Wow, this is a pretty bold statement that no conservative ever references. Its only libs that bring race into an arguement when it comes to government handouts being cut. But thanks for showing your own stereotyping of others, even though it isnt true.
    That's bullshit, and you know it. How many times do you hear conservatives speak of people on welfare driving Cadillacs or buying expensive sneakers (eg, the latest Jordans)? Are you going to tell me that you've never heard these, among other things? Those are stereotypes about blacks. And they use those SAME stereotypes to reference people on welfare.

    Don't pretend that you're not aware.

    I might have missed this, but are you talking about how whites who are the right tell poor whites to stop making excuses for being poor, as do blacks on the right say the same thing to poor blacks? I dont think its a racial thing, more of a political thing. You only distinguished white as being left or right. What do lefty whites think about the poor whites living in trailer parks?
    Stop making excuses for being poor? Ah, you think people choose to be poor. Tsk, tsk.

    No, it's a racial thing. For the past 50 years, the black community has been preaching "black unity" and bad consequences have come of, that many aren't aware of - for example, still being inclusive of those who are a liability to that community and allowing them to further damage it.

    Conservative blacks... do you see them out and about telling poor blacks to do anything? No, they're too busy trying to show everyone else that "See? I'm not one of THEM!"

    But you dont seem to see that there are minorities on the right that say the exact samething as the whites do about their own race. It looks more like to me that Liberals would rather just playcate the poor and buy their votes (white or minority) with government handouts while the right tries get out of the way for business owners so the private sector can hire the poor. We see this time and time again, Obamacare is prime example right now.
    Yeah? Name ONE law or program implemented by the post-Southern Strategy Republican Party that was designed to do this. Name ONE.

    Did I say it was because they were poor? No.
    Yes, you did. You said it was ignorant to assume that people on welfare aren't doing drugs. Your own words.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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  5. #45
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    That's bullshit, and you know it. How many times do you hear conservatives speak of people on welfare driving Cadillacs or buying expensive sneakers (eg, the latest Jordans)? Are you going to tell me that you've never heard these, among other things? Those are stereotypes about blacks. And they use those SAME stereotypes to reference people on welfare.

    Don't pretend that you're not aware.
    Those are your stereo types. The right doesnt bash people who buy Clothes or cars, either on welfare or rich. Cadis arent blacks only cars either, but if you want to stick with an 80's meme, go right ahead and keep living in the past. But if these things are true, wouldnt your examples show a lack of means testing for government assistance?

    Stop making excuses for being poor? Ah, you think people choose to be poor. Tsk, tsk.
    Well, lets see right here how you totally ignore the point and bring up a strawman. You take what I said as what those on the right say when a McDs worker says they arent paid a "livable" wage, and you turn it into me thinking the poor chose to be poor. Stay on subject. Those two sentence are not one in the same.

    No, it's a racial thing. For the past 50 years, the black community has been preaching "black unity" and bad consequences have come of, that many aren't aware of - for example, still being inclusive of those who are a liability to that community and allowing them to further damage it.

    Conservative blacks... do you see them out and about telling poor blacks to do anything? No, they're too busy trying to show everyone else that "See? I'm not one of THEM!"
    Watch "Runaway Slave" and tell me you dont know about the Black conservatives who dont say to the black community about government programs breaking the black families apart. The ones that preach "black unity" are race baiters and husslers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who profit greatly from causing strife against whites.

    Yeah? Name ONE law or program implemented by the post-Southern Strategy Republican Party that was designed to do this. Name ONE.
    I said tried, not implemented. You seem to forget that Congress has been controlled by Dems the majority of the time since the so called "southern Strategy". One that has been tried is the abolishment of the min wage which actually has been shown to harm the poor because it devalues the currency and the purchasing power that the min wage is raised to reestablishes back to what it was raised from. It harms the middle class too because now what they worked hard to achieve in pay doesnt go up and they lose out on being compensated now that the rung has been raised.

    Yes, you did. You said it was ignorant to assume that people on welfare aren't doing drugs. Your own words.
    No, I said white poor people do drugs too, not BECAUSE they are poor.
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    What the two above quotes seem to be proving is that when people complain about where their tax dollars are going in terms of public assistance, it's really a bullshit fa├žade. This, right here, shows that people who complain about this simply want to engage in malicious behavior towards people on public assistance. And they're willing to pay more in taxes in order to do it. Tsk, tsk.
    !
    SO cause i would like to see those on welfare and other public assistance, DO THE SAME as us in the military (or going for lots of jobs these days), which is pee in a cup periodically to test for illegal drugs in their system, i am malicious. I guess all those companies in the civilian sector that do this TO GET employment there are also Malicious, or is that only those who want the 'poor' to do it who get labeled malicious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Employers don't test test people "just because" or they simply want to catch someone in the act, just so they can fire them (unlike those who want drug testing for welfare recipients).

    Employers do this in order to protect themselves from lawsuits, in case someone is injured or killed on the job due to a drug related mishap. Employers have to be able to show that they have programs in place to prevent this.
    So Goodyear tyre, one of the places i was asked to take a drug test, just to even get an interview on site for, is only doing it to stop lawsuits? Not so they can 'weed out those who may have higher health care costs that will hurt the companies bottom line.
    Got it.

  7. #47
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by WILDJOKER5 View Post
    Those are your stereo types. The right doesnt bash people who buy Clothes or cars, either on welfare or rich. Cadis arent blacks only cars either, but if you want to stick with an 80's meme, go right ahead and keep living in the past. But if these things are true, wouldnt your examples show a lack of means testing for government assistance?
    The right doesn't criticize the poor for what they spend their money on??? I'm not even gonna address the rest of your post. This conversation just went down the shitter with that.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    SO cause i would like to see those on welfare and other public assistance, DO THE SAME as us in the military (or going for lots of jobs these days), which is pee in a cup periodically to test for illegal drugs in their system, i am malicious. I guess all those companies in the civilian sector that do this TO GET employment there are also Malicious, or is that only those who want the 'poor' to do it who get labeled malicious?
    And... you completely ignored what I was about WHY the drug tests are done in the first place.

    So Goodyear tyre, one of the places i was asked to take a drug test, just to even get an interview on site for, is only doing it to stop lawsuits? Not so they can 'weed out those who may have higher health care costs that will hurt the companies bottom line.
    Got it.
    Considering the fact that I AM a human resources professional with both a bachelor's and a master's degree in, I'm a pretty credible source of information on that; if I do say so myself.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  9. #49
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    SO cause i would like to see those on welfare and other public assistance, DO THE SAME as us in the military (or going for lots of jobs these days), which is pee in a cup periodically to test for illegal drugs in their system, i am malicious. I guess all those companies in the civilian sector that do this TO GET employment there are also Malicious, or is that only those who want the 'poor' to do it who get labeled malicious?
    And... you completely ignored what I said about WHY the drug tests are done in the first place.

    So Goodyear tyre, one of the places i was asked to take a drug test, just to even get an interview on site for, is only doing it to stop lawsuits? Not so they can 'weed out those who may have higher health care costs that will hurt the companies bottom line.
    Got it.
    Considering the fact that I AM a human resources professional with both a bachelor's and a master's degree in, I'm a pretty credible source of information on that; if I do say so myself.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Here's my idea.

    Ignore the first three duplicates. It's not letting me delete them. What's in the last is the edit that I meant to use.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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