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Thread: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

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    Junior Member forcedj's Avatar
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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    This is kind of ironic...military leaders being punished for making their military troops march -- something the military has done forever. What next...punishing them for fighting wars? And it sounds like those who used the tagged out toilets are barely being punished, if at all. And maybe the ship's 3M coordinator ought to be punished too because of poor training. Clearly those sailors don't know that tagged out equipment is not to be operated for danger of injuring or killing someone.

    Dan
    CTOC(AW), USN, Retired

    Recruit Training Command (Company 50), Orlando, FL Dec 1981-Jan 1982; CTO "A" and "C" schools NTTC Corry Station, Pensacola, FL Feb-Oct 1982; USS Saratoga (CV-60) 1982-1985; USS Forrestal (CV-59) 1985-1988; ONI Det Naval War College, Newport, RI 1988-1991; NAVSECGRUACT Terceira Island, Azores, Portugal 1991-1992; NAVSECGRUACT Rota, Spain 1992-1995; National Security Agency, Fort Meade, MD 1995-1998; USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) 1998-2001.

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    Senior Member BURAWSKI's Avatar
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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    Quote Originally Posted by forcedj View Post
    This is kind of ironic...military leaders being punished for making their military troops march -- something the military has done forever. What next...punishing them for fighting wars? And it sounds like those who used the tagged out toilets are barely being punished, if at all. And maybe the ship's 3M coordinator ought to be punished too because of poor training. Clearly those sailors don't know that tagged out equipment is not to be operated for danger of injuring or killing someone.

    Dan
    Well this seems similar to the CMC being fired for "assault" on a seaman. Doesn't the Navy realize that these actions undermine the authority of officers and senior enlisted? All these actions are what I would call last resort decisions, without looking at alternative ways of handling the situation, all which reflect the zero-tolerance mentality. It causes a hesitancy to take corrective action for fear that some disgruntled subordinate will cry foul.

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    Junior Member forcedj's Avatar
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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    I'm not saying this situation was handled correctly from the get go. Clearly it could have been handled better. But, to me, the fact that the superiors were 'fired' for making the sailors 'march' (that's what the article said)...and not because those sailors were made to carry bags of human excrement is ridiculous. When in history has a military or its members NOT marched? I guess forcing a troop to carry their own excrement is OK...but forcing them to march isn't. And the failure of recognizing longstanding, always-driven-home 3M practices was almost completely disregarded. Those sailors should be held accountable for operating tagged out equipment. I'm not saying the superiors and supervisors should get off without some punishment. But the consequences come down to a couple of probably otherwise good sailors...the XO and the CMC...now having tarnished careers. In my opinion the knee-jerk reaction was completely wrong. It was a knee jerk and shouldn't have been. But, unfortunately there's no instant replay.

    Dan
    CTOC(AW), USN, Retired

    Recruit Training Command (Company 50), Orlando, FL Dec 1981-Jan 1982; CTO "A" and "C" schools NTTC Corry Station, Pensacola, FL Feb-Oct 1982; USS Saratoga (CV-60) 1982-1985; USS Forrestal (CV-59) 1985-1988; ONI Det Naval War College, Newport, RI 1988-1991; NAVSECGRUACT Terceira Island, Azores, Portugal 1991-1992; NAVSECGRUACT Rota, Spain 1992-1995; National Security Agency, Fort Meade, MD 1995-1998; USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) 1998-2001.

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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    A 2 month investigation is hardly "knee-jerk" reaction. The two people's "firing" was primarily for concealing the incident and conspiring to conceal it from the ships Captain. Which is rather more serious than the hazing incident itself, it seems to me.

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    Senior Member BURAWSKI's Avatar
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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    The article may have implied that but didn't exactly say so. From what I read in the article the firings happened because the incident was considered to be "hazing" (i.e, the forced march on the pier carrying human waste in bags) and that the CO was never aware of it (so he says) because the CMC and XO did not brief him. That could have occurred from the CMC and XO concealing the incident, or it could have been as simple as them not saying anything, and the CO not asking any questions. This I might add, after several senior enlisted and commissioned officers witnessed the incident. So, there were several crew members who knew about this. Somebody complained. Hey, but if you feel it was a just action by the Navy, have at it. I'm just going by what I read. BTW, I think the Navy has hit about rock bottom on the leadership scale. Today, the United States Navy is a disgrace and embarrassment of which I am actually ashamed to be associated with.

    B. M. BURAWSKI

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    Senior Member BURAWSKI's Avatar
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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    The article may have implied that but didn't exactly say so. From what I read in the article the firings happened because the CO was never aware of it (so he says). That could have occurred from the CMC and XO concealing the incident or it could have been as simple as them not saying anything and the CO not asking any questions. This I might add, after several senior enlisted and commissioned officers witnessed the incident. Hey, but if you feel it was a just action by the Navy, have at it. I'm just going by what I read. BTW, I think the Navy has hit about rock bottom on the leadership scale. Today, the United States Navy is a disgrace and embarrassment of which I am actually ashamed to be associated with.

    B. M. BURAWSKI
    Chief Yeoman, U.S. Navy (Ret.)

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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    Quote Originally Posted by BURAWSKI View Post
    The article may have implied that but didn't exactly say so. From what I read in the article the firings happened because the CO was never aware of it (so he says). That could have occurred from the CMC and XO concealing the incident or it could have been as simple as them not saying anything and the CO not asking any questions. This I might add, after several senior enlisted and commissioned officers witnessed the incident. Hey, but if you feel it was a just action by the Navy, have at it. I'm just going by what I read. BTW, I think the Navy has hit about rock bottom on the leadership scale. Today, the United States Navy is a disgrace and embarrassment of which I am actually ashamed to be associated with.

    B. M. BURAWSKI
    Chief Yeoman, U.S. Navy (Ret.)
    I am right there with you brother. I just retired and don't want to be around the "new" mess as much. CMCs getting fired is kind of a new trend (3-4 years) for speaking their mind or any other excuse they can find to weed out the old school CMCs. If you don't toe the party line they end your career and bring in the next "yes man" watering down the mess even more. It started awhile ago but this MCPOON is the hatchetman.

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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    Agree completely. It began with formation of the "Triad". CMCs, previously the crew's advocate to the CO, have evolved into being the CO's mole within the CPO Mess and the crew. The line between the CPO Mess and the Wardroom has become blurred, too many CMC's develop a personal "relationship" with the CO and XO, thereby losing any legitimate objectivity and ability to be constructively critical of the CO when necessary.

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    Re: XO-CMC fired over toilet training

    Reminds me of just about EVERY general quarters drill we had on my carrier, when they would shut the valves going to the CHT tanks, but the damn Flight Deck Skittles who worked the back watch wouldn't care, and continue to flush their commodes. Since our heads were on the 2nd deck, their waste would flow down the pipes, hit that shut valve, then backflow through our commodes, and flood the head with 6-8 inches of brown water and floaters.

    EVERY. DAMN. GQ.

    Didn't matter that they'd been told countless times they weren't supposed to use the heads during GQ's. They were Skittles, and no one could tell them what to do. Besides, they were attached air wing, and didn't care about the ship or the crew.

    Just another reason to hate them damn Skittles!! :cussing:

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