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Thread: It's Only "Metadata"

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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    It's Only "Metadata"

    Or is it?

    What simple locational information can discover through extrapolation:
    https://www.aclu.org/meet-jack-or-wh...-location-data

    Thank goodness I'm not a terrorist and have nothing to hide?
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    How powerful the NSA must be that not even a President who ran on gutting the work of this agency hasn't been able to even stop the growth of the activities it engages on?
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    How powerful the NSA must be that not even a President who ran on gutting the work of this agency hasn't been able to even stop the growth of the activities it engages on?
    That does bring a good question to mind, indeed he did run on such a platform, certainly in 2008. While I personally don't recall similar rhetoric in 2012, I wonder if he has changed his mind on the subject, paid it lip service to score political points (not unique among politicians) or if the agency is indeed too powerful for even the Commander in Chief of the Executive Branch of government to contain one of its executive agencies. Has our Executive Branch of the government grown so disproportionately bloated and out of control that the brain has lost its ability to control the movements of the fingers?
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    That does bring a good question to mind, indeed he did run on such a platform, certainly in 2008. While I personally don't recall similar rhetoric in 2012, I wonder if he has changed his mind on the subject, paid it lip service to score political points (not unique among politicians) or if the agency is indeed too powerful for even the Commander in Chief of the Executive Branch of government to contain one of its executive agencies. Has our Executive Branch of the government grown so disproportionately bloated and out of control that the brain has lost its ability to control the movements of the fingers?
    I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.
    That's more than a bit scary to me (Orwellian even if it is indeed the case). If true, I'm not sure if it is the only executive entity that holds the distinction. It seems like the vast majority of them are starting to run amok!
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens.
    Being a Senator is different than being the President. As a Senator he was on the Homeland Security Committee so he (probably via a staffer) got some intelligence, but not as if he had been on the SSCI. As President, he is the head of the Executive Branch and Commander in Chief of the military. Very few legislators see the same type of data the President does and it could be that now he has a better understanding of what SIGINT / NSA does than he did before. Granted, just getting a more enlightened view of what something does not / should not mean someone will alter their principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.
    There have been shake-ups within NSA and the Service Cryptologic Elements. At the same time, the metadata issue was already reviewed prior to implementation by the FISA courts, so it was legal (maybe not gentlemanly ... but legal), and the issue with Merkle's phone ... that was for the cameras, you can rest assured that foreign (to include friendly) intelligence agencies are also looking at our government's leader's phones as well.

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Give it some time or if not already (considering the IRS scandal)....NSA stuff will be used against domestic political opponents....given to the politicians by ideological true believers.
    The state tends to expand in proportion to its means of existence and to live beyond its means, and these are, in the last analysis, nothing but the substance of the people. Woe to the people that cannot limit the sphere of action of the state! Freedom, private enterprise, wealth, happiness, independence, personal dignity, all vanish. - Frederic Bastiat

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellJD1969 View Post
    Give it some time or if not already (considering the IRS scandal)....NSA stuff will be used against domestic political opponents....given to the politicians by ideological true believers.
    And that is what I think its going to come down to. Its going to take an "earth shaking" scandal to get this under control.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    As we have seen already though, with scandals after scandals, no one in that neck of the woods seems to lose their jobs.. so i doubt the NSA is worrying.

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    Re: It's Only "Metadata"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.
    So you think he was sincere about wanting to end the NSA, but they may of had something on him to force him to give more power and freedom? Maybe dems and GOP are alike in more ways than you all may think and what they promise in an election cycle really doesn't mean squat after they win the seat? Just like when Obama said he was going to close GITMO. Or when he said "if you like your plan...". Maybe Americans just need to wake up an see that both sides are of the same coin. If the NSA, CIA, FBI etc are so powerful, why would they have waited for the (non)PATRIOT act to be passed before doing all of this? If they were that powerful, do you really think they didn't know about the 9/11 before it was going to happen? I don't really believe they became this entrench and powerful in the past decade.
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