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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    This is not another attempt to simply slam the President for misspeaking... a few times, about grandfathering of previous healthcare plans, it's honestly not.

    However, I am sure even the most progressive among our ranks who are probably not that interested in rollout difficulties at the moment are probably acquainted with this development:

    Clinton says President should honor his statement to let people keep their healthcare plans:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-care-promise/

    This title of this thread was written in a deliberate fashion to catch the attention of Democrats on the defensive though. I'm actually playing the devil's advocate to myself here and offering suggestions that may be costly to my desires.

    What are your thoughts on the bill in the house to allow people to keep their healthcare plans?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...alth-plan-act/

    I do not have all of the numbers in front of me, but I am under the distinctive impression that the arithmetic won't play out very well if this law passes, effectively making the cost untenable if additional revenues are not acquired somehow.

    How to go about that? Well I see a couple of methods, the default go to one seems to be adjusting tax rates, which is questionably effective depending on how it's implemented. I do know that will not help these PR issues the Democrats are encountering with the rollout. Another method is just to let the extra debt build, I do not think that will go over well. One additional method is to leave it to the free market, that will essentially allow the ACA approved plans to adjust their pricing to accommodate the lack of revenues. Of course this simply means the prices will rise to handle the additional cost burden, by how much is to be seen.

    If I were a savvy progressive who wishes to at least retain political share in government, I would definitely consider the third option as a viable method. This bill has a high probability of causing the ACA to tank disastrously, if the Democratic PR network managed to convince the average American that the shutdown was a Tea Party shutdown, placing blame on Republicans this time should be childplay by comparison. This is also, in my perspective, the ticket to get the single payer system many of you desire. When the average voter sees the prices rise on this level, it will not be difficult to convince them the pricing can be set lowest with government at the helm and that the single payer system will be the solution to this rise in prices. Will it work? It depends where the voting numbers lie.

    I do think this is Clinton's angle in all of this, he may be distancing himself from Obama to usher in Hillary and single payer healthcare. The timing would workout well, if Democrats can hold the Senate and maybe gain some positions in the house in 2014 and 2016 the timetable would probably work out very well for it. Obviously there's a certain amount of risk-taking involved here, and obviously the question of whether Reid would cooperate and the President would use his veto authority. Much like the fracturing of the "Right" in October, we are beginning to see similar things now with the "Left".

    Should Democrats stand behind this healthcare law, or is it time to allow the transition many of you seek?
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    I've seen this in the news, and I'm left with 2 questions:

    1) What insurance is being dropped and why? I've seen a lot of rhetoric but few facts on this point. (e.g. are the policies being dropped ones that don't meet minimum standars under ACA)

    2) Did the President make a "promise" he had no ability to keep? If so, this is a political mistake, not one in the law...does it really need "fixing"?

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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    I've seen this in the news, and I'm left with 2 questions:

    1) What insurance is being dropped and why? I've seen a lot of rhetoric but few facts on this point. (e.g. are the policies being dropped ones that don't meet minimum standars under ACA)
    Yes, thats a reason the insurance is being dropped. The 40 y/o males with no kids or wife who never wanted Maternity care or pediatric dental on their plans are being dropped. Women who dont need prostate coverage are being dropped.

    2) Did the President make a "promise" he had no ability to keep? If so, this is a political mistake, not one in the law...does it really need "fixing"?
    Yeah, I guess he should have read the bill before he made those promises. But then again, no one read the bill before it was passed.
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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    I've seen this in the news, and I'm left with 2 questions:

    1) What insurance is being dropped and why? I've seen a lot of rhetoric but few facts on this point. (e.g. are the policies being dropped ones that don't meet minimum standars under ACA)

    2) Did the President make a "promise" he had no ability to keep? If so, this is a political mistake, not one in the law...does it really need "fixing"?
    The answer to your second question is obviously yes, based on the information referenced below, the question being more of whether he knew it or not at the time he was making the promises, I'll leave that to speculation.

    Here is the basis of the former, which is not all right-biased information sources:
    One can pick and choose what they believe, but it is not even an argument whether some plans are being lost or not at this time.

    People losing Insurance Plans:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...cancellations/
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ce_766531.html
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...351_story.html
    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/...-to-obamacare/
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4192079.html
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    I'll never forget Pelosi saying that we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.


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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    This is an interesting excerpt from a Q&A article:

    Q: But now I keep hearing horror stories about people whose insurance is being canceled because of Obamacare - what's that all about?

    A: OK, here's where it gets even more complicated. Remember the folks who aren't insured through their job and are too well-off for Medicaid but not old enough for Medicare? It's estimated that 14 million Americans purchase private individual insurance. Some of these plans work well but others are what experts call "junk insurance" - policies that might cost as little as $50 a month but cover few costs of a major illness.

    Many of these plans run year to year, and they are often radically changed or even canceled by insurers - especially since some large companies don't find this market very profitable. Now, "junk insurance" won't even meet the mandates for comprehensive coverage under the law. (The measure allowed for "grandfathering" of some insurance plans, but ultimately very few qualified.)

    Officials say as many as 7 million or more of those with private insurance are learning their policies have been canceled. And at least a few million are expected to pay more next year - although often for better coverage; many are expected to qualify for affordable policies, often subsidized, but it's hard for them to know how that will work out with all the startup glitches.

    So you can understand why some folks are furious. "The transition to a much better health-insurance system is going to have a disconcerting effect on some people in the beginning," acknowledged Sara Rosenbaum, professor of health law and policy at George Washington University.

    Also, experts say many of the same issues are going to affect small-group policies used by small businesses, although that impact won't largely be felt until next fall at the earliest. Rosenbaum also noted that a lot health insurance at small businesses disappeared in the Great Recession.


    Entire Article: http://www.philly.com/philly/health/...rt_it_out.html

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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    This is an interesting excerpt from a Q&A article:

    Q: But now I keep hearing horror stories about people whose insurance is being canceled because of Obamacare - what's that all about?

    A: OK, here's where it gets even more complicated. Remember the folks who aren't insured through their job and are too well-off for Medicaid but not old enough for Medicare? It's estimated that 14 million Americans purchase private individual insurance. Some of these plans work well but others are what experts call "junk insurance" - policies that might cost as little as $50 a month but cover few costs of a major illness.

    Many of these plans run year to year, and they are often radically changed or even canceled by insurers - especially since some large companies don't find this market very profitable. Now, "junk insurance" won't even meet the mandates for comprehensive coverage under the law. (The measure allowed for "grandfathering" of some insurance plans, but ultimately very few qualified.)

    Officials say as many as 7 million or more of those with private insurance are learning their policies have been canceled. And at least a few million are expected to pay more next year - although often for better coverage; many are expected to qualify for affordable policies, often subsidized, but it's hard for them to know how that will work out with all the startup glitches.

    So you can understand why some folks are furious. "The transition to a much better health-insurance system is going to have a disconcerting effect on some people in the beginning," acknowledged Sara Rosenbaum, professor of health law and policy at George Washington University.

    Also, experts say many of the same issues are going to affect small-group policies used by small businesses, although that impact won't largely be felt until next fall at the earliest. Rosenbaum also noted that a lot health insurance at small businesses disappeared in the Great Recession.


    Entire Article: http://www.philly.com/philly/health/...rt_it_out.html
    I really hate hearing all this bullshit with the "junk insurance" crap. The only time I have ever heard this is when the policies started getting cancelled and the Democrats are trying to play it off like "it's ok you are losing your insurance, it was a pos policy anyway". But honestly most people like me when I was single only got insurance that covered some catastrophic stuff and a few preventative care items. That's all I needed and that's all I wanted. Now if I get insurance from Obamacare, I am having to pay for maternity care and contraception for myself. Why the hell would I need insurance that covers contraception or maternity care if I were a single guy?

    But I am happy married and I have kids, so I have to buy the health insurance for the whole family. Even then I weigh the options of the different plans and what they cover. I have a mid range plan under the FEHB and I like it for the most part, and I am paying $300 a month out of pocket for it. But the same plan under the ACA would be slightly more a month and it would cover less. My current plan I pay a $20 copay every time one of my family goes to the doctor, but under the ACA Bronze plan I would pay a $40 copay out of pocket EVERYTIME one of my family goes to see a doctor.

    The policies are being dropped because under the Obamacare mandate and rules the administration made it next to impossible to be "grandfathered" in, so the insurance companies are FORCED to drop your policy.

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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERFX1024 View Post
    I really hate hearing all this bullshit with the "junk insurance" crap. The only time I have ever heard this is when the policies started getting cancelled and the Democrats are trying to play it off like "it's ok you are losing your insurance, it was a pos policy anyway". But honestly most people like me when I was single only got insurance that covered some catastrophic stuff and a few preventative care items. That's all I needed and that's all I wanted. Now if I get insurance from Obamacare, I am having to pay for maternity care and contraception for myself. Why the hell would I need insurance that covers contraception or maternity care if I was a single guy?

    But I am happy married and I have kids, so I have to buy the health insurance for the whole family. Even then I weigh the options of the different plans and what they cover. I have a mid range plan under the FEHB and I like it for the most part, and I am paying $300 a month out of pocket for it. But the same plan under the ACA would be slightly more a month and it would cover less. My current plan I pay a $20 copay every time one of my family goes to the doctor, but under the ACA Bronze plan I would pay a $40 copay out of pocket EVERYTIME one my family goes to see a doctor.

    The policies are being dropped because under the Obamacare mandate and rules the administration made it next to impossible to be "grandfathered" in, so the insurance companies are FORCED to drop your policy.
    I think the government knows what is best for you; plus, that extra twenty bucks copayment will help an undocumented new American get the health benefits they deserve.

    This new healthcare program is about diet, not diabetes! So you better start eating right and don't be a burden to the system.

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    Senior Member CYBERFX1024's Avatar
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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    I think the government knows what is best for you; plus, that extra twenty bucks copayment will help an undocumented new American get the health benefits they deserve.
    This new healthcare program is about diet, not diabetes! So you better start eating right and don't be a burden to the system.
    I know you are just trolling to get a response out of me but I ain't fooling for it. Illegal aliens don't "deserve" any kind of healthcare, let alone anything else. I already do eat right, and exercise everyday out here in the civilian world. I can think of a lot of other things that the extra $20 could go for than for paying for ACA.

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Re: You Can Keep Your Healthcare?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERFX1024 View Post
    I know you are just trolling to get a response out of me but I ain't fooling for it. Illegal aliens don't "deserve" any kind of healthcare, let alone anything else. I already do eat right, and exercise everyday out here in the civilian world. I can think of a lot of other things that the extra $20 could go for than for paying for ACA.
    Not illegal, just undocumented!

    Remember that couple that "crashed" the state dinner for the Indian Prime Minister at the White House a few years ago? Well, they didn't really "crash" the party, they where just undocumented guests.

    If you get on an Amtrak train headed to Philadelphia with out a ticket, and tell the conductor that you are an undocumented passenger, they make you buy a ticket for some reason.

    I suspect that making undocumented withdrawals from the bank is also frowned upon.

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