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Thread: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

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    US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    This thread is started in response to a desire to provide a location on this forum that is safe enough for we Happy Few who have resisted being Political Conservatives in a military ocean seemingly full of Political Conservatives to discuss our origins and how we view the US Political picture through our experiences and our backgrounds. I would suggest starting the discussion wide open, and then sliming it down as necessary as we go along.

    Glad to meet you.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    This thread is started in response to a desire to provide a location on this forum that is safe enough for we Happy Few who have resisted being Political Conservatives in a military ocean seemingly full of Political Conservatives to discuss our origins and how we view the US Political picture through our experiences and our backgrounds. I would suggest starting the discussion wide open, and then sliming it down as necessary as we go along.

    Glad to meet you.
    I joined in 2004 when I was 26, been born and raised outside the continental US I didn't knew what to expect. Basic training was an eye opener, my very first experiences with people denigrating you due to ethnicity, race, and I'm not talking about the TI's. When I got to my first shop it was like an Replublican Indoctrination course. Everyone talked about how bad the democrats are, how they wanted to cut and gut the military, how latino's are becoming the doom of this country, how blacks are lazy, how we should discriminate against gays and all the same nonsense that they still talk today. Me coming from a very religious conservative upbringing fell right at home with being a "republican" (voted for Bush in '04) until I started to experience first hand many of the abuses and be the subject of the racial and ethnic slurs of those guys from my shop and others in my unit, then I realize it wasn't about being religious or being conservative for them it was about hate and ignorance, hate of all that that is different from them. I tried to fit in the most I could but at then end it was to no avail, no matter how much I tried I realized that I will always going to be looked at as different. Then I started to do some research about republicanism and their views and why is it that many people that are racist, bigots, xenophobes tend to gravitate to that party. Once I realized that the problem wasn't me that the problems was them it was a pretty smooth transition to the liberal/progressive side of politics.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    I joined in 2004 when I was 26, been born and raised outside the continental US I didn't knew what to expect. Basic training was an eye opener, my very first experiences with people denigrating you due to ethnicity, race, and I'm not talking about the TI's. When I got to my first shop it was like an Replublican Indoctrination course. Everyone talked about how bad the democrats are, how they wanted to cut and gut the military, how latino's are becoming the doom of this country, how blacks are lazy, how we should discriminate against gays and all the same nonsense that they still talk today. Me coming from a very religious conservative upbringing fell right at home with being a "republican" (voted for Bush in '04) until I started to experience first hand many of the abuses and be the subject of the racial and ethnic slurs of those guys from my shop and others in my unit, then I realize it wasn't about being religious or being conservative for them it was about hate and ignorance, hate of all that that is different from them. I tried to fit in the most I could but at then end it was to no avail, no matter how much I tried I realized that I will always going to be looked at as different. Then I started to do some research about republicanism and their views and why is it that many people that are racist, bigots, xenophobes tend to gravitate to that party. Once I realized that the problem wasn't me that the problems was them it was a pretty smooth transition to the liberal/progressive side of politics.
    I went through Basic Training in 1967, right out of High School, and we certainly didn't have time enough to discuss politics, much less having to deal with Bullies who painted word pictures in political terms. Once basic was over, I moved to Advanced Individual Training - MOS Training - where - again - we didn't have time for issues outside of the MOS subject at hand. Politics finally became a pertinent subject upon Deployment to Qui Nhon, Vietnam from January to December, 1968, because I was there when King and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated, and I was there when the Chicago political riots took place as well. All three incidents were topics for discussion in the GP Mediums that were our homes for the duration. I was already a Progressive Democrat from a family of Progressive Democrats, but the subjects didn't heat up very much because we were mostly wrung out from our 12 Hour shifts. In the mean time, politics in my first year in the Army remained a topic of pure discussion since I was only 19 going on 20, and - in those days - one needed to be 21 in order to have the right to vote. So, it was the 1970 New York Mid-Term Election that proved to be my first where I could vote. New York State - then as now - was politically Liberal to the point where "Conservative Republican" was an oxymoron. Still, there were differences between Democrats and Republicans in terms of Banking, Education, Farming, and Foreign Policy. Congressman Jack Kemp and Governor Nelson Rockefeller are the two examples of Republican politicians from that period that registered on my brain to any great extent, and neither of them were any more Conservative than William McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt. For me, the topic didn't become relevant until Nixon's second term, which is when the migration of the Racists you talk about from the Democrats to the Republicans actually started. As you might expect, I was instantly motivated to vote for Nixon's challenger, but to no avail, and was forlorn until the Watergate incident restored my hope. With Nixon out of office, the Republicans screwed their heads on straight until the coming of Ronald Reagan, which is when things started to go downhill to what we experience today.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    I went through Basic Training in 1967, right out of High School, and we certainly didn't have time enough to discuss politics, much less having to deal with Bullies who painted word pictures in political terms. Once basic was over, I moved to Advanced Individual Training - MOS Training - where - again - we didn't have time for issues outside of the MOS subject at hand. Politics finally became a pertinent subject upon Deployment to Qui Nhon, Vietnam from January to December, 1968, because I was there when King and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated, and I was there when the Chicago political riots took place as well. All three incidents were topics for discussion in the GP Mediums that were our homes for the duration. I was already a Progressive Democrat from a family of Progressive Democrats, but the subjects didn't heat up very much because we were mostly wrung out from our 12 Hour shifts. In the mean time, politics in my first year in the Army remained a topic of pure discussion since I was only 19 going on 20, and - in those days - one needed to be 21 in order to have the right to vote. So, it was the 1970 New York Mid-Term Election that proved to be my first where I could vote. New York State - then as now - was politically Liberal to the point where "Conservative Republican" was an oxymoron. Still, there were differences between Democrats and Republicans in terms of Banking, Education, Farming, and Foreign Policy. Congressman Jack Kemp and Governor Nelson Rockefeller are the two examples of Republican politicians from that period that registered on my brain to any great extent, and neither of them were any more Conservative than William McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt. For me, the topic didn't become relevant until Nixon's second term, which is when the migration of the Racists you talk about from the Democrats to the Republicans actually started. As you might expect, I was instantly motivated to vote for Nixon's challenger, but to no avail, and was forlorn until the Watergate incident restored my hope. With Nixon out of office, the Republicans screwed their heads on straight until the coming of Ronald Reagan, which is when things started to go downhill to what we experience today.
    Corny, we established much earlier that you tend to have a "Forest Gump" type of personal history ("Was across the street from the anti-war protestors in DC in 1969"). Now you are saying you were in Chicago in 1968? When was it you said you were in Vietnam?
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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    I enlisted in 1996, age 25. I've always been left of center but as I get older I find myself leaning farther left every year on social and economic matters. Politics haven't really been a big issue for me through most of my career. I never had any bosses who were overly ideological in any way, or if they were, they never pushed it. That's not to say I haven't had bad bosses but their poor decision making was mostly job related. My only real run-ins with conservatives were at my first duty station. There was a group of four Christian fundamentalist assholes who enjoyed giving me a hard time but it didn't really amount to much. Usually they would just gang up and start pelting me with theological and science questions at rapid fire. When I couldn't answer all of their questions, they considered themselves victorious in the "debate." Yeah, it was pretty childish and when I moved to another shift I never had to deal with them again.

    Most times, the people who get discriminated against are at the bottom of the pecking order. After four years I was an NCO and in charge of people so I was never on the receiving end of that kind of crap and I made it pretty clear to the people around me that I wouldn't tolerate it either.

    Oddly, it wasn't until I was assigned to a unit with a lot of civilians that I encountered a lot of conservatives in one area. It's hilarious to watch the sheer hypocricy when they gripe about people mooching off the government while these fat asses sit in their cubicles surfing the internet and drawing down GS-12 salaries. Since none of them have any authority over me I really don't care what they say. Someday soon these guys will be retired and then they'll be thankful for the extra income they get with Social Security.
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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Corny, we established much earlier that you tend to have a "Forest Gump" type of personal history ("Was across the street from the anti-war protestors in DC in 1969"). Now you are saying you were in Chicago in 1968? When was it you said you were in Vietnam?

    I turn 65 in 19 days. You do the math!!!! No, I WASN"T in Chicago, I was in VIETNAM!!!! Chicago's riots took place while I was in VIETNAM!!!

    I think you need to learn how to READ!!!!
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by AF Comm Guy View Post
    Oddly, it wasn't until I was assigned to a unit with a lot of civilians that I encountered a lot of conservatives in one area. It's hilarious to watch the sheer hypocricy when they gripe about people mooching off the government while these fat asses sit in their cubicles surfing the internet and drawing down GS-12 salaries. Since none of them have any authority over me I really don't care what they say. Someday soon these guys will be retired and then they'll be thankful for the extra income they get with Social Security.
    I also work with many civilians and witness exacly what you pointed out. They make me sick...Seriously. The best part is how most of them are "disabled veterans" also, so I like to ask them just what it is that they are disabled for. It is usually some BS that they scammed in order to get free money from the government. I usually just tell them that they are on welfare and are even worse than the moochers that they complain about.

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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    I also work with many civilians and witness exacly what you pointed out. They make me sick...Seriously. The best part is how most of them are "disabled veterans" also, so I like to ask them just what it is that they are disabled for. It is usually some BS that they scammed in order to get free money from the government. I usually just tell them that they are on welfare and are even worse than the moochers that they complain about.
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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    I joined in 2004 when I was 26, been born and raised outside the continental US I didn't knew what to expect. Basic training was an eye opener, my very first experiences with people denigrating you due to ethnicity, race, and I'm not talking about the TI's. When I got to my first shop it was like an Replublican Indoctrination course. Everyone talked about how bad the democrats are, how they wanted to cut and gut the military, how latino's are becoming the doom of this country, how blacks are lazy, how we should discriminate against gays and all the same nonsense that they still talk today. Me coming from a very religious conservative upbringing fell right at home with being a "republican" (voted for Bush in '04) until I started to experience first hand many of the abuses and be the subject of the racial and ethnic slurs of those guys from my shop and others in my unit, then I realize it wasn't about being religious or being conservative for them it was about hate and ignorance, hate of all that that is different from them. I tried to fit in the most I could but at then end it was to no avail, no matter how much I tried I realized that I will always going to be looked at as different. Then I started to do some research about republicanism and their views and why is it that many people that are racist, bigots, xenophobes tend to gravitate to that party. Once I realized that the problem wasn't me that the problems was them it was a pretty smooth transition to the liberal/progressive side of politics.
    What career field do you work in? I am just wondering because in my decade plus of service, I have only heard one 6 month span of political talk when Obama first ran and never heard anyone use a racial slur or ever put any other race down what so ever. But then again, I do work in an intelligent careerfield and we stick to facts. Not even basic did I ever hear anything about politics or race.

    I would also like to see some of your "research" that shows the list of people you mention gravitating towards the GOP. Seems counter intuitive since they were started based upon the basis of racial equality.
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    Re: US Military Liberal/Progressive Experiences

    I am simple anti-authoritarian, which means I am not progressive or conservative. Neither Dem nor GOP. I was raised in a dem household who have turned Libertarian when they really started becoming intersted in politics and realised that nothing from the government is ever free. Voting for "best intentions" yields the same results of unintended consequences that harms more people than it helps. I thought GOP was the way to go until I realized making laws to force my moral values is just as bad as Dems/progressives making laws to force their moral values. I work with civilians as well, and feel bad for them because they are going to be so crushed when this military industrial complex is going to be shrank to accomadate those who dont actually go to a work place and make as much as the GS-10. But I honestly believe that we need to shrink the forces overseas before we drop the civilians who work in the states. That is billions of dallars that are spent on foreign economies while our CONUS economies lose out.
    Liberalism; such great ideas, they need to force you to follow them.

    Socialism is for the people, not the socialist.

    Economic Left/Right: 7.38
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