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Thread: Evals and awards

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    It doesn't matter if the chain of command remembered or forgot what the Sailor did during their evaluation period. The chain of command will have already made up its mind who is getting the EPs and MPs before they even look at anyone's write-ups.
    I don't know about EVERY command, but I have sat QRBs for every rank through CPO and have never seen where the EPs, MPs and Ps were predetermined. I could generally guess who was likely to fall out where, but always ended up with some surprises. At the same time, I have also seen a reporting senior swap a Sailor or two from #1 to #2 (Which is his or her perogative as the reporting senior, it is their signature on the eval -- not mine.)

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Up to Pay Grade E-4, nothing wrong with a Junior Officer, (0-4 and below), authoring a young Sailors' EVAL. At the E-5 and above level, very important that the CPO Mess has a huge part in this as this is when records are reviewed by boards. As a former Big Deck CMC, I would not route an EVAL unless it had the Departmental CPO's ink all over it, up to and including the LCPO, (normally a seasoned MCPO). The DH's also knew that I wouldn't route them so they too held their CPO Mess to task for producing a great product. Great training for a JO to write the junior Sailor evals, but who better than a well seasoned CPO to write for the E-5 and above.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    No good CO would swap the numbers on a ranking board conducted by a perfectly aligned CPO mess and chaired by a dialed in CMC,,,,,,,,

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Quote Originally Posted by 4CECMC View Post
    Up to Pay Grade E-4, nothing wrong with a Junior Officer, (0-4 and below), authoring a young Sailors' EVAL. At the E-5 and above level, very important that the CPO Mess has a huge part in this as this is when records are reviewed by boards. As a former Big Deck CMC, I would not route an EVAL unless it had the Departmental CPO's ink all over it, up to and including the LCPO, (normally a seasoned MCPO). The DH's also knew that I wouldn't route them so they too held their CPO Mess to task for producing a great product. Great training for a JO to write the junior Sailor evals, but who better than a well seasoned CPO to write for the E-5 and above.
    I don't disagree with you, but I did get my Petty officer's involved in drafting the evals of those junior to them. When I had a LCPO, unless he or she was on leave or TAD, I never looked at things that didn't have his or her initials on it. In part out of respect for the rank and the position, in part to keep me straight. I also agree, "who better to write an eval for a Petty Officer than a seasoned chief", my concern is that some people are just getting too lazy to write on eval on their subordinates. As I said, to me that is the single most important administrative duty I can do for the people I am supposed to be leading.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4CECMC View Post
    No good CO would swap the numbers on a ranking board conducted by a perfectly aligned CPO mess and chaired by a dialed in CMC,,,,,,,,
    Not saying it was a great or even good thing, but that I did see it. I never saw where it was predetermined before the QRB who was getting ranked where, I have seen surprises where Sailors ended up lower than I would have expected (reputation exceeding substance) and Sailors who ended up higher than I would have expected (substance exceeded reputation.) Regardless, it certainly is the perogative of the reporting senior to say who his or her #1 is. At least when I did see it happen and Sailors were swapped, it was #1 and #2 and it wasn't like #42 was pulled was up in the rankings.

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    Senior Member BURAWSKI's Avatar
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    Re: Evals and awards

    Another thing that bothered me and which I saw a lot was the politicizing of the ranking process, which was not really what the intent of the process should have been. I mean, really, the idea should have focused on the most-deserving to be promoted, but I didn't seem to feel that was the case. The murder boards I saw on a submarine tender were complicated by the politicizing. Part of the problem was each department head had their own people to fight for, and then I saw where the CMC was functioning pretty much as a department head, instead of as a representative of the CPO Mess. That right there took the CPO's out of the process, because their inputs were not viewed as more creditable than any other department head who felt their Sailors should be ranked higher. It really was a confusing situation because ranking should not be a process where it is politicized. I've seen it where some of the more senior department heads had an intimidation factor on their side, which seemed to push their people ahead. Bottom line was it wasn't about performance at all. It was about ...... appearances and which department head won out. A lot of BS.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Quote Originally Posted by BURAWSKI View Post
    ... the idea should have focused on the most-deserving to be promoted ...
    But what do I do when the person who (in my opinion) deserves to be promoted the most has not performed as well as someone else during that reporting period? I have seen a superstar performer over the course of years who based on a quirk here or there ending up in a particular reporting period not being as competitive as someone else

    As far as the politicization of the QRB process, I haven't really seen it, but I have not been to every command and I know it has to happen. DH's etc. need to stick up for their Sailors, and I have more than once said that "MY #1 Sailor may not be THE #1 Sailor in the command." It may be hard to distinguish being so close to the issue (which is exactly as you said -- where the CMC get's involved.)

    As far as the intimidation, the easiest way to handle that for me has been to disagree without being disagreeable. I can vehemently disagree with a senior (call them sir or ma'am etc) even one I am friendly with but stand my ground, generally I have grown to have more respect for people who were willing to tell me what they thought, regardless of what I thought.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Well, yes I should have clarified that last comment in that what I meant was by the most-deserving to be promoted be considered based on their performance and accomplishments to the command mission during that particular reporting period. Sadly those factors are not always the priority.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Quote Originally Posted by BURAWSKI View Post
    It seems reasonable to me to ask for an input, or what I remember as being called a "brag sheet" which was a form to be submitted to the supervisor for consideration when drafting the performance appraisal. Unfortunately, I started seeing a lot of senior enlisted simply asking their juniors to "go ahead a write yourself up for an end of tour" or whatever which included having them write their own performance evaluation. I tried addressing that with individual supervisors, but it was like talking to a brick wall, not to mention that it would some how get turned around and look like I was the one with the problem (i.e, mind your own business, etc.). I started seeing too many in leadership positions that knew better doing this kind of crap, and it really got to me. Part of what is wrong today and a cause of why seniors wonder why their authority is diminished. A junior has a right to know exactly how their supervisor views their performance and not be asked "Well, how do you think you're doing?" That comes under the part of taking responsibility for your people and standing up for them when warranted and holding them accountable if they don't perform. It isn't hard to figure out when you see so many supervisors negating their duty and responsibilities to their subordinates. I pissed off a lot of people trying to do the right thing, but I don't regret it.
    I too started seeing "End of tours and Evals" getting delegated to the troop him/herself to write, but the times i did often those who DID submit themselves eventually saw NOTHING for what they wrote used in the "Final product" so got Disenhearted with it and felt "Why bother"..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    This is why I scoffed at writing my own. At my first command, the OIC even had a policy that was only verbalized to E6 and above in meetings - that no E4 or below will leave the command with a NAM or FLOC. He never said it to our faces, but it eventually leaked and we found out. So when I was told by my LPO to write my own EOT award - knowing full well that it wouldn't result in anything worth advancement points - I took that as an insult to my intelligence, and I was ready to snap... I even told my LPO to her face that I knew about what the OIC said, and that I'm not writing shit (I wasn't mad at HER; she knew that). The realization of the fact that I was almost outta there is helped me keep my cool.
    I too have been places where it was an "Unspoken rule" that E4 and below at MOST got FLOC's or FLOAs, E-4 and 5 got NAMs or FLOCs, E6s got NAMs (and rarely NCMs), E7-9 got NCMs, and any officer got NCMs or NSMs. Irked me off to no end.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    In the Air Force intel-world, I've noticed that good supervisors always kept either a notebook or a spreadsheet on what type of projects their people were working on. If you are running almost any kind of section you are going to be asked for metrics of some kind eventually, why not keep a running tally on what your shop is producing in the first place?

    I would usually get the junior folks involved in keeping spreadsheets like that updated because it saved a lot of time scrambling to answer predictable questions from the CCs later on. It only made sense to make those spreadsheets have the names of the personnel who accomplished each task in their and it was a great resource for writing evals and awards later on.

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    Re: Evals and awards

    Burawski - good notes, but I always got the ranking board results after the DH's conducted their ranking board (briefed to me by the Chairman of that particular ranking board). It was I who then presented the "final" ranking to the CO. Rarely did I have to make changes after going thorough CPO, JO, (usually formed a JO ranking board for their own training purpose), DH board. Process works as long as the CMC, XO and CO are communicating well before hand. The crème always rose to the top and politics/personality were always left in the mess decks.

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