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    Senior Member Shaken1976's Avatar
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    FAC under investigation

    Apparently our FAC is under investigation for the number of failures they have had over the last year. Not sure what this all means. But they are looking at training for one. Apparently also a huge amount of inconsistencies. I guess there were enough complaints. I know from one test to another I lost a lot of weight and my waist went up. Then kept losing and the next test my waist was down. Another individual I know went to test and it began raining so he retested three days later and was taped 2 inches bigger.

    What I would like to know...is what happens to all the tests that they find issues with?
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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaken1976 View Post
    Apparently our FAC is under investigation for the number of failures they have had over the last year. Not sure what this all means. But they are looking at training for one. Apparently also a huge amount of inconsistencies. I guess there were enough complaints. I know from one test to another I lost a lot of weight and my waist went up. Then kept losing and the next test my waist was down. Another individual I know went to test and it began raining so he retested three days later and was taped 2 inches bigger.

    What I would like to know...is what happens to all the tests that they find issues with?
    How could they find issues with any tests? Does the investigation committe have a time machine where they can go back and re-measure the people at the point where they failed? You did cite two examples where measurements varied but are those examples actually documented? In the case of your friend who's test was rained out. Does the the FAC save copies of unofficial tests? I would think they do not. My guess is that once a test is entered into AFFMS (or whatever the acronym is) that the paper copy is trashed shortly after. Also cancelled tests would not be official anyways. In your case what exactly could the investigation find? You are saying that you lost weight but your waist went up. This is actually possible. If You were a beer drinker (not saying you are) you could lose weight but get kind of a beer gut. If you then quit drinking the gut might go away. Im just saying I do not see how an investigation could do anything to substantiate past complaints. The only thing the investigation could do is have the FAC tape various people and see how the measurements compared. I'm not so sure that validates anyones past claim or at least it is not enough validation to get past tests thrown out.

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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    How could they find issues with any tests? Does the investigation committe have a time machine where they can go back and re-measure the people at the point where they failed? You did cite two examples where measurements varied but are those examples actually documented? In the case of your friend who's test was rained out. Does the the FAC save copies of unofficial tests? I would think they do not. My guess is that once a test is entered into AFFMS (or whatever the acronym is) that the paper copy is trashed shortly after. Also cancelled tests would not be official anyways. In your case what exactly could the investigation find? You are saying that you lost weight but your waist went up. This is actually possible. If You were a beer drinker (not saying you are) you could lose weight but get kind of a beer gut. If you then quit drinking the gut might go away. Im just saying I do not see how an investigation could do anything to substantiate past complaints. The only thing the investigation could do is have the FAC tape various people and see how the measurements compared. I'm not so sure that validates anyones past claim or at least it is not enough validation to get past tests thrown out.
    They were able to "fix" things when they assumed that PTL's were "cheating" when they went to the civilians doing it (without having a time machine to go back) so, whether it's an investigation or just a review is irrelevant. They need to look into it and make sure people know how to do a proper waist measurement.

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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    They were able to "fix" things when they assumed that PTL's were "cheating" when they went to the civilians doing it (without having a time machine to go back) so, whether it's an investigation or just a review is irrelevant. They need to look into it and make sure people know how to do a proper waist measurement.
    I think you are correct they can make some changes I just do not think the investigation will do anything for previous tests. If I were running the investigation I would find people with various body types and send them as sort of "secret shoppers." Measure them immediatly before they test and then see if the measurement varies when they are measured by the FAC. If they did not want to use "secret shoopers" they could also choose 50 people and have the FAC measure them all. Then compare the different measurements and see where it varies. In all honesty I do not see why the FAC wouldn't have a policy like this in place anyways.

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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I think you are correct they can make some changes I just do not think the investigation will do anything for previous tests. If I were running the investigation I would find people with various body types and send them as sort of "secret shoppers." Measure them immediatly before they test and then see if the measurement varies when they are measured by the FAC. If they did not want to use "secret shoopers" they could also choose 50 people and have the FAC measure them all. Then compare the different measurements and see where it varies. In all honesty I do not see why the FAC wouldn't have a policy like this in place anyways.
    Yep, should have something in place to verify. Hell, they could even take 1 person, have 3 different FACs measure them. I don't think the FACs are intentionally getting it wrong, I just think it's too difficult for them to be consistent.

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    Re: FAC under investigation

    This sounds like someone is merely looking into the FAC and their processes, but the word of mouth through the best friend's sister in law of SSgt Johnny's wife's babysitter has said "That fitness place at the gym is, like, totally under investigation by OSI or something! I heard about it today at the Key Spouse's meeting...OMG!"

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    Senior Member Shaken1976's Avatar
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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS302 View Post
    This sounds like someone is merely looking into the FAC and their processes, but the word of mouth through the best friend's sister in law of SSgt Johnny's wife's babysitter has said "That fitness place at the gym is, like, totally under investigation by OSI or something! I heard about it today at the Key Spouse's meeting...OMG!"
    Actually the fact that they are under investigation came from the Shirt and CC in the form of ensuring we have someone with us when we test. Also the fact that anything from the last year is out from a legal standpoint came at the same briefing. So I figure it is a reliable source. Not sure about the throwing tests out.
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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaken1976 View Post
    Actually the fact that they are under investigation came from the Shirt and CC in the form of ensuring we have someone with us when we test. Also the fact that anything from the last year is out from a legal standpoint came at the same briefing. So I figure it is a reliable source. Not sure about the throwing tests out.
    I'm sure the FAC was legit (maybe the investigation will uncover that more should be failing?)...we have the same complaints at our base when people fail. We mock test them to see, and guess what. They still fail the mock test. Why does everyone think that everyone should pass this test when clearly there are people who do not prepare? I think FACs that have an 85% or better pass rate should be investigated.

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    Senior Member Shaken1976's Avatar
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    Re: FAC under investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardsAMust View Post
    I'm sure the FAC was legit...we have the same complaints at our base when people fail. We mock test them to see, and guess what. They still fail the mock test. Why does everyone think that everyone should pass this test when clearly there are people who do not prepare? I think FACs that have an 85% or better pass rate should be investigated.
    I know for a fact there was at least some shady stuff going on. Not sure that it still is. There were a few people who got in trouble for testing people they knew (buddy system). The fail rate was pretty high on waist measurements apparently. Talking to a friend last night I was told that she was called in and questioned about an experience she had. I know some issues were found with training.

    I don't know what the outcome will be...but I know for a fact that it is under investigation. I also know that legal is not processing any demotions/discharges because of fitness right now. Seems there has to be something there. An airman in my squadron had his discharge stopped. He was supposed to be out this month.
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    Re: FAC under investigation

    There is no consistency to the taping. I have had the tape pulled tight, snugly, or barely touching the skin. Each of these methods will give different results. And each style is interpreted by the taper of the correct method. Its odd when my taping history reads 34-34-34-36-34. Nothing was different on that 36 except for the method the taper used...aka, barely lay it against the skin
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