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Thread: To Lie or Not To Lie

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    To Lie or Not To Lie

    A high ranking officer or enlisted person walks into your section (announced or unannounced). He/she walks around the section and shakes everyone's hand and then asks a few questions.

    1. How are you guys doing?
    Lie: Good; alright; great!; or simple head nod.
    Truth: Not well; depressed; sad; angry at (insert situation/person); stressed out over (insert issue)

    2. What do you think of the new (insert item) policy?
    Lie: It's good; it's okay;about time for change; or simple head nod
    Truth: It sucks; its not effective; how will that affect us?; Didn't know about it?

    3. What do you think of your leadership?
    Lie: They're great; they're okay; or simple head nod
    Truth: They suck; they only look after themselves; they don't have time for us; I don't trust them; or who?

    4. Are you guys busy a lot?
    Lie: Yes! ; Absolutely!; or Simple head nod
    Truth: Not really; With busy work; only us lower ranks; or only the NCOIC

    5. Do you like it here?
    Lie: Yes I do; of course; great place to be; or simple head nod
    Truth: No, I hate it here; I can deal with it; I cannot wait to PCS

    6. You guys have anything else to add or ask me about?
    Lie: No; not now; thanks for coming; come by whenever; or simple shake of the head
    Truth: I have many things I want to say or express but doing so will only get me in trouble; Why is it that leaders constantly ask younger troops how they are doing but are afraid to ask the question because of the fear of reprisal?; Are you just asking that or do you generally want to hear from us?; Is there a catch to that question?

    My question is, why do many of us keep lying?

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    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Are those example lies really what people say?
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
    -GEN Bruce C. Clarke

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Quote Originally Posted by sharkhunter View Post
    My question is, why do many of us keep lying?
    Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.
    Absolutely...and you're going to end up being the one "tasked" to come up with solutions to the problems which will, in turn, end up taking hours of your time with no chance at any actual resolution. So we just nod and smile...

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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Absolutely...and you're going to end up being the one "tasked" to come up with solutions to the problems which will, in turn, end up taking hours of your time with no chance at any actual resolution. So we just nod and smile...
    Sometimes it depends who is asking and whether you think they are being sincere. I was TDY to Keesler one time and I ran into the finance career field manager at a bar. He was there with 2 Chiefs who I had worked for. They stopped me to say high. We talked for a few minutes and then he straight up asked me how I felt about the AFFSC (Ellsworth processing office). I straight up told him that it was a total disaster and it actually ended up being twice as much work for us base level people and actually lowered customer service. I explained in simple terms the issues we were dealing with and how the solution was to admit it was a mistake and bring back processing capability to base level. He looked a little bit stunned and said he had not really been getting that feedback from other bases. About a week later he sent out an email to ask for feedback on the issues I had brought up. It turns out every base agreed with me but no one would man up and be honest. If you think you have a fighting chance its worth bringing up the issue. Just make sure you are bringing up the issue to the right person. If you complain about your work hours to the career field manager he obviously cannot fix that. You need to bring that up to your commander or flight chief. Addressing issues to the proper person is key. Don't be the tech school Amn who told a 4 star general his mattress was not very comfortable. The general made every squadron do a mattress check and report back on the comfort of all of them. If he would have just said something to his MTL they had plenty of extra mattresses in supply.

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    There is a time to speak up and a time to keep your mouth shut. Knowing the difference between the two is what makes a person wise.

    If you are part of any organization or social group you have got to be concerned with protocol because if you break it you'll be marginalized or crushed. That not just in the military, that is how any large group of people interact.

    When a colonel or a chief comes into your duty section and starts asking questions, you can talk to them about issues, just make sure you aren't throwing someone in your chain of command under the bus if you do speak up.

    I changed from a disgruntled airman into a sergeant when I accepted the fact that there was always going to be a system that was bigger than me and I'd be much better off paying attention to how that system worked. I also had to accept the fact that sometimes I was going to have to keep my mouth shut and and agree with it when I didn't want to.

    It is a rare thing when speaking up and "telling the unvarnished truth" to a colonel who walks into your shop for a visit is the right thing to do.

    I was also a hell of a lot happier in life when I realized that the "truth" most always has a subjective component to it. The "truth" often changes when you start examining it with a few other people.

    @sharkhunter

    You don't have to lie but you do have to be careful with speaking your mind because it can be like letting a genie out of a bottle, there are consequences.

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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    Lying is what keeps the mission going and morale sky high.
    Also, if you're the only person that doesn't lie, you will be cast as a complainer/bitcher and your life will become hell. Been there, it sucks!

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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Because if you tell the truth, you're gonna end up answering even more questions and going through a bunch of other nonsense... and nothing is going to change. If things are going to stay the same anyway, then it doesn't make sense to add to the nonsense that you're already putting up with.
    Don't forget the fact that as soon as that person leaves the area, you are gonna get your @$$ handed to you by your leadership....
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    This is kind of like the questionaire that has to be taken before the PRT (PT test in the AF).

    A bunch of "yes or no" questions - like, are you sedentary? Do you experience pain when you run? - etc, etc.

    To this day, I haven't figured out the "yes" answer - or combinations of answers - that will get you out of the PRT. But what I do know, is you'll simply get some lecture on whatever you answered "yes" to.

    And then you're going to run the PRT anyway.

    That's why I simply answer "no" to everything. Even if it's a flat-out lie.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Chief_KO's Avatar
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    Re: To Lie or Not To Lie

    The truth hurts...but leadership (at all levels) needs to hear the truth. Now, having said that, there is the correct level, time & place to consider. Like said early, don't tell the 4-star your mattress is lumpy (unless all previous attempts fail).
    Dog & pony shows are valuable...IF leadership has the balls to take the DV to see the worst thing on base (or the worst thing in that DV's area of interest).
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

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