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Thread: Updated guidance finally released

  1. #11
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post

    Athletic people are not the ones in trouble with the PT program.
    Perhaps not, the point is that BMI is no more an accurate measurement of fitness than waist measurement. But then again, we all know that the "fitness program" is no longer about fitness and mission readiness. That's just lipstick on the pig.

  2. #12
    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    According to the NIH, a person who is 5'11" and 180 lbs has a BMI of 25.1 and is overweight.

    Like I have been saying in here for a long time, most Americans are fat and out of touch with healthy weight standards.

    http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/...MI/bmicalc.htm

    It all begs the question then if BMI is such a good indicator, then why don't we just use it and scrap the waist measurement? It doesn't take much at all for someone 5'11" to hit 180 lbs. This is Big Blue talking with a forked tongue. Out of one side of their mouth they are telling us that over a 39" waist is a fail, while out of the other, they are telling us that over a 25 BMI is. So which is it? I would like to see the person that has over a 39" waist that has under a 25 BMI. I don't think it's possible. In fact, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people with a 35 or 36 inch waist who are over a 25 BMI, but according to the waist measurement, they are good to go. Again, so which is it?

    This was simple Big Blue's way of coming up with a means to defend the ridiculous waist measurement by pointing to a system that will tell you that anyone with even the slightest bit of muscle mass is overweight. And then, to top it all off, they add even more measurements to an already broken system.

    You really can't make this stuff up. It would probably have been better if they just left it alone. IMO, the constant changes are all but an outright admission that our PT program is F'ed.

  3. #13
    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    PT designer explains Air Force's new test

    Teed off about the PT test? Scratching your head over why there's still a waist measurement? Or how come your run time counts six times more than your pushup score?

    You're not alone.

    Complaints and questions are still pouring into the Air Force, even though the service unveiled the new standards five months ago.

    The man with the answers is Neal Baumgartner, a retired Air Force major and exercise physiologist now working as a civilian with the 342nd Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.

    Baumgartner helped design the Air Force's "Fit to Fight" fitness program in 2003 and he's the one who two top leaders —Maj. Gen. Darrell Jones, director of force management policy, and former Chief Master Sgt. of the Air Force Rodney McKinley — turned to when they wanted to revamp the service's PT test.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Albert Einstein
    The first thing the AF should have done is to stop listening to Mr. Baumgartner. Question for Mr. Baumgartner...if you're such a PT wizard, why is it that our PT program is always in a constant state of flux? How many mulligans do you need before you get it right?

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    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    Here is his photo as girls track coach, he's on the left:
    But of course...had to know that a guy that invented a PT program so heavily weighted on running would be a track guy...and that leads to people running so much as either part of group PT or PTing on their own that people are developing knee and joint issues left and right. Any doctor worth a darn will tell you that running all the time isn't good for you. Sure, lots of people can run all the time and have it not affect them. I used to be one of them...key words being used to. I can still run, but it is not without a price. The only thing that's changed is my age. Big Blue is worried about people's heath? Then maybe they should be worried about people having knee replacements at 40 something years old.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    Perhaps not, the point is that BMI is no more an accurate measurement of fitness than waist measurement. But then again, we all know that the "fitness program" is no longer about fitness and mission readiness. That's just lipstick on the pig.
    BMI and waist measurement are useful indicators of health, specifically being overweight or obese. In all fairness to BMI, you should have quoted the preceding paragraph and not just the bullet point that fit your bias.

    BMI is a useful measure of overweight and obesity. It is calculated from your height and weight. BMI is an estimate of body fat and a good gauge of your risk for diseases that can occur with more body fat. The higher your BMI, the higher your risk for certain diseases such as heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, gallstones, breathing problems, and certain cancers.

    Although BMI can be used for most men and women, it does have some limits:

    It may overestimate body fat in athletes and others who have a muscular build.

    It may underestimate body fat in older persons and others who have lost muscle.

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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    BMI and waist measurement are useful indicators of health, specifically being overweight or obese.

    That's what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post

    BMI and waist measurements are medical guidelines of health and weight...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    @imnohero

    Then what are we arguing about?

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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    The first thing the AF should have done is to stop listening to Mr. Baumgartner. Question for Mr. Baumgartner...if you're such a PT wizard, why is it that our PT program is always in a constant state of flux? How many mulligans do you need before you get it right?
    If you haven't read it, do a search for Ben Gleason AF PT manifesto. He was Eglin AFB's Fitness Program Liason. It's a long but good read and who the AF should have listened to.

  9. #19
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    AA, I think we have a difference of opinion on the value of BMI as it relates to the fitness test.

  10. #20
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: Updated guidance finally released

    I'm a little confused. The OP says that the BMI will be determined if the other 3 total >60. If the passing score is a 75, should the BMI be determined if the other scores total at least 55, since the waist is worth 20?

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