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Thread: Church Members Mistreat Homeless Man in Church Unaware It Is Their Pastor in Disguise

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    Re: Church Members Mistreat Homeless Man in Church Unaware It Is Their Pastor in Disg

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    What has "Christianity" really done for Christians? If I recall correctly, there were recent stats showing that over 95% of current prison inmates are Christian. This isn't me questioning the individuals; this is me questioning what Christianity has done for them. They were Christian, and they still committed a heinous crime that put them in their current position.

    Where did you hear this stat? Was it saying that these people were Christians before they were in prison or converted while in? A little known fact about prison is that in most places you can get your senetence shortened by one day for every self help meeting you attend (AA, NA, Anger Management, etc). My guess is these people attend the meetings to shorten their sentence and maybe even bought into the material presented.

    I bet you would find that a large portion of recovering alcoholics are christians. I'm not so sure you can take that stat though and say that most christians are drunks. If you are willing to do that then I can convince you that eating ice cream causes drowning. If you look at the sales volume of ice cream you will find that in months where ice cream sales increase so does drowning.

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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: Church Members Mistreat Homeless Man in Church Unaware It Is Their Pastor in Disg

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    What the hell is Atheism? I assume you're talking about atheism. But what I'm saying is not an argument for atheism.

    Isn't that what's happening? Religion is supposed to make its followers into better people, is not? But that's not happening, is it?

    Christianity believes that one is saved through faith alone. So, as long as someone has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, the belief is that anything else that they do - or fail to thereof - will have no consequences. However... if one did have the faith, would they not be helping this man because of that faith?

    What has "Christianity" really done for Christians? If I recall correctly, there were recent stats showing that over 95% of current prison inmates are Christian. This isn't me questioning the individuals; this is me questioning what Christianity has done for them. They were Christian, and they still committed a heinous crime that put them in their current position.

    Mind you, I'm not arguing for atheism. If an atheist commits a crime, then he did so in accordance with his own personal morals which are totally different than mine or any other atheist.

    Christians, however, read the same Bible and worship the same god.

    Not true. If enlisted person in uniform is walking past an officer in uniform, he's expected to salute - is he not? What about the civilian?

    A Christian belongs to something where things are expected of him or her. An atheist does not.

    The only time where you can hold and an atheist and a Christian to the same standard is when it comes to the law, or the rules and regulations of a non-government or non-religious organization that they might both belong to - for example, working for the same employer.

    The quality of any product is reflective of the workmanship of the person who produced it. That said... what has Christianity done for these Christians?

    An argument against atheism because of Pol Pot would be invalid. Atheism is not a religion, and to say it is would be the same as saying that abstinence is a sex position.
    You're absolutely correct about using Pol Pot as a case against Atheism being invalid, you cannot ascribe the actions of the individual who ascribes to Atheism to be equivalent to being morally supported by the philosophy itself. Whether you realize it or not, you are making a moral argument here. You are arguing that Christians who aspire to a faith, take actions which are contrary to the system of belief, and then subsequently cast moral judgments on other individuals for taking contrary actions are in fact hypocrites. This is a fair assertion, but in doing so, it is wrapped under the premise that taking a "hypocritical action" is morally incorrect, thus in doing so you likewise are casting a moral judgment upon these individuals. This would mean, by your own standards, if you are casting these aspersions on these individuals, you should never take an action which is contrary to this moral belief. So now, in your casting a moral judgment on individuals, yet ascribing to a different standard for yourself because you purport to allegedly have no specific moral code of any set variety, it is extremely disingenuous, and another word for it has already been used in quotes in this commentary.

    People are human, Christians believe they are by definition imperfect beings. The fact that there are imperfect Christians helps emphasize the point.

    What would not be intellectually disingenuous here would be to call out hypocritical individuals in general, the belief system the hypocritical individuals subscribe to is irrelevant.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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