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Thread: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Not to distract from you pedophelila conversation but...what I found particularly interesting....

    But Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Holy See’s press office, told NBC News the comments were "in line with the teachings of the church."

    It's not clear when celibacy became mandatory for priests, HuffPost Religion notes, but the first written mandate for chastity dates to 304 C.E., when Canon 33 of the Council of Elvira stated that all "bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics" should "abstain completely from their wives and not to have children."

    And "a definitive ruling was handed down at the Second Lateran Council of 1139, which ruled that priests were forbidden to marry."

    Parolin's admitted question of priestly celibacy represents “a great challenge for the pope."


    Currently I don't believe married priests are forbidden to have children so the first "rule" doesn't really apply. Priests may be forbidden to marry but there isn't any Biblical instruction for that to be the case. Maybe a way around this rule would be to only allow men to enter seminary if they are already married....then they will have an outlet and not break any church rules...
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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post

    When they say, "the molestation is schools is likey 100 times higher"...are they saying the rate is 100 times higher...or the raw number is 100 times higher? Obviously, there are a lot more kids in school than there are that spend time with priests...even of kids that go to catholic church, not that many are actually alter boys or some other role where they are really spending time with the priest...I never did.
    But you are missing the point that you are even making. The issue is not being celibate the issue is being a pedophile. I guess that if that 4% percent of priest had access to more children more children would have been molested but that wont increase the percentage of priest who are pedophiles. Liking prepubescent children is what causes child sexual abuse not a lifestyle decision made by one person.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Priests may be forbidden to marry but there isn't any Biblical instruction for that to be the case. Maybe a way around this rule would be to only allow men to enter seminary if they are already married....then they will have an outlet and not break any church rules...
    The Bible only mentions deacons and bishops, and even states that bishops are required to have children... but...

    Catholicism doesn't believe in sola scriptura; in fact, the first Christians to do so were the Waldensians of the late Middle Ages, and this were Protestants picked it up from.
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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    I am shocked by that statistic...but, remember the 4% of priests are the ones actually accused of molestation.


    And the 4% of the public are also the ones actually accused of molestation.

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Go without sex for a long while...you'll find some perverted stuff popping into your brain.
    I lost my virginity at 13. Did not have sex again until I was 17. Did have sex after that until I was 19, when I started actually having sex "regularly."

    Not ONCE has it ever entered my mind to have sex with anything other than human female that was my age.
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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Where did you read that?
    Ummm...I didn't read it...but common sense says that the stats they have are the ones who have been caught. Obviously, not 100% get caught, which means that there are more out there who aren't caught, which puts the number above 4%, just as it does with the Priests.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Catholic Church...I find so much wrong with it...but to assume the rate of priests not accused is any higher than the rate of the general public doesn't make sense.

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-6389019.html

    "The Vatican's second-highest authority says the sex scandals
    haunting the Roman Catholic Church are linked to homosexuality
    and not celibacy among priests."
    Ohhhh of course Bertone... That's why he got kicked out of the Vatican when Pope Francis got in. Bertone is a an old school catholic douchbag of the highest order, glad his gone.

    Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).


    Other
    Approaches Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
    http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html

    Bertone was just trying to say " Is not a church problem... Is a gay problem" to excuse the unjustifiable behaviour of letting child molester serve in the Church.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    I've stated this earlier, but it seems to have fallen on blind eyes - much of the 4% of Catholic priests, if not most of it, can be attributed to panic; since priests are stuck with that reputation. You're more like to "see" signs of pedophilia that aren't even there among priests than anyone else, if you have it in your mind that priests are pedophiles; and, as such, you're more likely to report it.
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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Some more stats:


    Population of the US, roughly 310,000,000.



    Okay...so 400K registered sex offenders...0.12% of the population.

    Yes, we can assume more are accused than are registered SO. Also, we can assume that a fair portion of the registered SO are not accused of crimes against children. Are incarcerated inmates registered???



    Okay, so 234,000 are incarcerated on sex crimes...0.075% of the population.

    Let's just say we add these two together, even though many are probably the same people...634,000. We are still at only 0.204% of the population that we know have been convicted of sex crimes...but, not necessarily against children.



    Okay...so let's assume 70% of the 634,000 are against children...443,800...or 0.14% of the population having been convicted of sex crimes against children.

    Okay, not all accused are convicted or even tried...but we're still pretty far from 4%
    You do understand that child sexual abuse is one of the most under reported crimes not only in the US but in the world?

    Mainly because the victim tends to be children and secondly but no less important because 90% of child sexual abuse occurs within the immediate family circle.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Re: Vatican: Celibacy in Catholic Church open for discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Yes, I do understand that...

    Sooo...if 4% of priests HAVE BEEN REPORTED...how many would you guess have actually occurred?? Much Higher right?
    Not necessarily because I won't consider the priest to be part of that "immediate family circle". Priest cases fall into those that were actually reported and if you go back to the scandal that was the issue, cases being reported but nothing was being done.

    You keep trying to these tricks with numbers and with numbers you can really show whatever you want really so I'm no going to argue your assumptions. The data is there from the Vatican and from experts that have been studying pedophilia for decades and their conclusions don't support the link that you are trying to make between celibacy and child sexual abuse and that's all I got I say.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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