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Thread: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

  1. #21
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    Re: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    I hope someone knows for certain, but I think that one must serve at least 3 years to be eligible for the post 9-11 GI Bill.
    Just for clarification.

    You are elegible for GI bill benefits after just 90 days of active duty. Just 30 days if the member was separated by a service connected injury. The 3 years mark you probably speak of is to qualify for full benefits for 36 months but even that can change under special circumstances. Always recommend your fellow airmen/soldier, sailor, marine/ coasties to visit the VA website for specific and up to date GI Bill information.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglés con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en él reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

  2. #22
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    Re: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    Just for clarification.

    You are elegible for GI bill benefits after just 90 days of active duty. Just 30 days if the member was separated by a service connected injury. The 3 years mark you probably speak of is to qualify for full benefits for 36 months but even that can change under special circumstances. Always recommend your fellow airmen/soldier, sailor, marine/ coasties to visit the VA website for specific and up to date GI Bill information.
    Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry for any confusion.
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
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    Re: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

    I am going through the same thing. I am wondering the same thing about the severance pay. Here is my argument:

    AFI 36-3208:
    9.1.5. The member is not separated for "misconduct" or "unsatisfactory performance" as defined in Chapter 5, Section 5E and Section 5H.

    But there is an entire section under 5K
    Section 5K—Failure in the Fitness Program.
    5.65. Failure in the Fitness Program. Airmen who do not meet fitness standards in AFI 10- 248, Fitness Program, (formerly AFIs 40-501 and 40-502) may be discharged when the failure in the fitness program resulted from a cause which was within their control. Follow the procedures for failure in the fitness program according to AFI 10-248 before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions. NOTE: Administrative actions commenced on or before 31 Dec 03 may be executed to completion, using this paragraph and separation program designator (SPD) codes JCR, GCR, and HCR. Members who were notified in writing on or after 1 Jan 04 (as specified in AFI 10-248) IAW this directive will be separated using SPD codes JFT, GFT and HFT and paragraph 5.26.6.
    5.66. Separation Authority and the Type of Separation.
    5.66.1. The SPCM authority personally approves or disapproves discharge under this provision unless an Airman who has made an unrestricted report of sexual assault requests review of the discharge (see paragraph 1.31). If the SPCM authority also exercises GCM authority, the vice commander may be designated, in writing, to act personally on these cases. If the SPCM authority is the initiating commander, the case must be referred to the GCM authority for final decision.
    5.66.2. The service of airmen discharged for not meeting fitness standards will be characterized as honorable if the sole reason for separation is failure to meet fitness standards.
    5.67. Suspension of Discharge. Airmen approved for discharge under this provision should be considered for probation and rehabilitation under Chapter 7. If the member has lengthy service, comply with Chapter 6, Section 5F. If the member is reenlistment eligible, comply with Chapter 6, Section 6E.

    So, if the discharge package says discharge under 5K and not under 5E....can you theoretically fight to get severance pay?

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    Re: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

    Section 5E—Unsatisfactory Performance.
    5.25. Eligibility. Airmen should be discharged when their unsatisfactory performance or conduct shows they are not qualified for service with the Air Force. Performance in the Air Force includes, but is not limited to, work done as assigned duties, military training, bearing, and behavior. It necessarily includes the member's continuing responsibility for maintaining the high standards of personal behavior and conduct required of military members at all times. Airmen may not be discharged under this provision:
    5.25.1. If they are in entry level status. Unsatisfactory performance in entry level status is a basis for discharge under Section 5D.
    5.25.2. Until they have been counseled about their deficiencies and have a chance to overcome them.
    5.26. Criteria. Airmen are subject to discharge for unsatisfactory performance based on documented failure to meet Air Force standards. Commanders must weigh an airman's conduct, military deportment, and duty performance against those of other airmen of like grade, age, and length of service. While unsatisfactory performance may be due to one flaw in a member's abilities, it is shown as a rule, in more than one way. When this is the case, the recommendation for discharge for unsatisfactory performance should cite all the deficiencies that were not overcome by counseling and rehabilitation. One or more of the following may be used as the basis for discharge under this provision:
    5.26.1. Unsatisfactory duty performance:
    5.26.1.1. Failure to perform assigned duties properly.
    5.26.1.2. A progressively downward trend in performance ratings.
    5.26.1.3. Failure to demonstrate the qualities of leadership required by the member's grade.
    5.26.2. Failure to maintain standards of dress and personal appearance (other than fitness standards) or military deportment.
    5.26.3. Failure to progress in military training required to be qualified for service with the Air Force or for performance of primary duties.
    5.26.4. Irresponsibility in the management of personal finances.
    5.26.5. Unsanitary habits such as repeated infection of venereal disease, persistent refusal to bathe, and similar refusal to observe personal hygiene.
    5.26.6. Failure to meet minimum fitness standards. Airmen who fail to meet minimum standards of fitness for reasons not amounting to disability may be discharged. Follow the procedures for fitness management according to current Fitness Program AFI before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions.

    AFI36-3208 9 JULY 2004 83
    5.26.6. Failure to meet minimum fitness standards. Airmen who fail to meet minimum standards of fitness for reasons not amounting to disability may be discharged. Follow the procedures for fitness management according to current Fitness Program AFI before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions.
    Section 5K—Failure in the Fitness Program.
    5.65. Failure in the Fitness Program. Airmen who do not meet fitness standards in AFI 10- 248, Fitness Program, (formerly AFIs 40-501 and 40-502) may be discharged when the failure in the fitness program resulted from a cause which was within their control. Follow the procedures for failure in the fitness program according to AFI 10-248 before starting action to discharge. Make sure the case file shows the record of those actions. NOTE: Administrative actions commenced on or before 31 Dec 03 may be executed to completion, using this paragraph and separation program designator (SPD) codes JCR, GCR, and HCR. Members who were notified in writing on or after 1 Jan 04 (as specified in AFI 10-248) IAW this directive will be separated using SPD codes JFT, GFT and HFT and paragraph 5.26.6.
    5.66. Separation Authority and the Type of Separation.
    5.66.1. The SPCM authority personally approves or disapproves discharge under this provision unless an Airman who has made an unrestricted report of sexual assault requests review of the discharge (see paragraph 1.31). If the SPCM authority also exercises GCM authority, the vice commander may be designated, in writing, to act personally on these cases. If the SPCM authority is the initiating commander, the case must be referred to the GCM authority for final decision.
    5.66.2. The service of airmen discharged for not meeting fitness standards will be characterized as honorable if the sole reason for separation is failure to meet fitness standards.
    5.67. Suspension of Discharge. Airmen approved for discharge under this provision should be considered for probation and rehabilitation under Chapter 7. If the member has lengthy service, comply with Chapter 6, Section 5F. If the member is reenlistment eligible, comply with Chapter 6, Section 6E.
    SEPARATION PAY
    9.1. General Procedures. All the basic criteria below defining eligibility for separation pay must be met before a member is eligible for payment.
    9.1.1. The member is on active duty (AD) and has completed at least 6 years, but fewer than 20 years of active service; active service does not have to be continuous.
    9.1.2. The member must not separate at his/her own request. (However, after a member has been formally and officially denied reenlistment or continuation on active duty, the member may request an earlier separation from AD without loss of separation pay.) Consider as a separation at the member's own request, the following:
    9.1.2.1. A member who declines training for a new skill as a precondition to reenlistment or continuation on AD.
    9.1.2.2. A member who declines to test for promotion or declines the promotion and is subsequently separated under a high year of tenure program.
    9.1.2.3. A member who requests voluntary separation under any of the provisions in Chapter 2 or Chapter 3 of this directive, except when member has been denied reenlistment or continuation on AD.
    9.1.2.4. A member who declines to get the required retainability for permanent change of station.
    9.1.3. The member must not separate during the initial enlistment. Members who complete their initial enlistment of 4 or 6 years and who are involuntarily separated while on an extension of their enlistment and have more than 6 years of active service are eligible for separation pay.
    9.1.4. The member is not being dropped from Air Force rolls and is not eligible for retirement at time of separation.
    9.1.5. The member is not separated for "misconduct" or "unsatisfactory performance" as defined in Chapter 5, Section 5E and Section 5H.

    So I am wondering if they put in the discharge package that the person is getting discharged under paragraph 5K and not under 5E, can a person fight for separation pay?

  5. #25
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    Re: Severance Pay requirments? PT Failure admin discharge

    If you are still wondering, please see AFI 36-3208 table 9.1. rule 8... Failure in Fitness Program=No Pay
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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