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Thread: waist stays and....

  1. #11
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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by mikezulu1 View Post
    Thats about it, no pullups nothing really "new" that I can see, from the "PT review" by the CSAF:

    But, in the future, if an Airman fails the AC portion of the test, and passes each of the other three components, we’ll measure that Airman using the Body Mass Index (BMI) taping guidance in DoD instructions. If the Airman meets the DoD BMI standard, they pass the PFT.

    We’re making three other modifications designed to improve the program. First, we’re realigning the fitness appeal process back to Wing Commanders. Second, passing standards are being adjusted for Airmen who can only test on one component of the Fitness Assessment, and third, we’re changing and simplifying the walk test.

    All these changes will be effective 1 October 2013, and the A1 will send detailed implementation guidance to the field shortly.

    The second comment Chief Cody and I hear most frequently is that we need to rethink how we document fitness performance in performance reports. We are doing that as part of a larger effort to examine the performance report itself, along with the promotion system it supports. We’ll give you the results of that study in the near future.
    These answers took 7 months? Really? I expected more from our current leadership,
    “To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.” - Unknown

  2. #12
    Senior Member Class5Kayaker's Avatar
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    Re: waist stays and....

    Before getting in to my thoughts, a little about my personal experiences with the test (so no one thinks I have a personal agenda against the waist measurement). I've never failed, have scored 100's in the past, and usually score above 90's. My biggest issue has always been with the waist measurement. Not because it was something that was going to fail me personally, but I've seen great folks who were pretty darn fit who could run in the 10's and do pretty well on P/U & S/U but fail the test because of the waist measurement. The only thing the waist has done for me is make it near impossible to score 100 even when I've run a sub 9 minute 1.5 mile and maxed P/U and S/U. I'm just not built like your traditional distance runner.

    On to my thoughts:

    ****
    I'm glad they're making some changes, but I hated that they cited their BS Statistics. The reason the numbers were so low was because those that failed the waist got ZERO points for their waist instead of still getting some points. The old chart, you got 11.7 points for a 39.5" waist (12.6 for a passing 39"), the new chart gives you a goose-egg. So, yes....of course the numbers of folks still scoring over a 75 while failing the waist was extremely low, because they only had 5 points left to give up in the remaining three categories. A Male in his 30's would have to max P/U, S/U, and run a sub 11:06 to still get over 75. A more accurate thing for them to report would have been the number of people who passed the other three components while failing the waist, not failing the waist and getting over a 75.

    ****

    I agree with the others who mentioned the BMI thing is NOT going to help many folks at all. BMI is a terrible measurement. All it factors is height and weight. You can have a guy that's complete muscle (muscle weighs more than fat) who will be considered obese according to BMI charts, but only has 3-5% body fat. I'm willing to bet most competitive body builders are considered obese according to BMI charts. Anyone know what failing for BMI used to be?? They didn't mention it in the email.

    Here's some more info debunking BMI:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0305202535.htm

    From that article:

    “A previous study of NFL football players found that a large percentage of them – around 60 percent – were considered obese,” he said. “But when you look at an athlete like that, you see that in many cases he is not obese. Many athletes have huge BMIs because of muscle mass, but in many cases are not fat.”

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=106268439

    ****

    Sounds like they're going to change the required minimum for waist only measurement folks, which is good. My guess is they'll just have to pass the minimum waist measurement instead of calculating it by points as a stand-alone test. It made no sense that someone who was on a profile preventing them from working out was required to have a waist 1.5" smaller than a guy who is able to work out.

    ****

    Sounds like they're getting rid of the heart rate for the walk test. This was another nonsense thing. The older you got, the lower your heart rate had to be while performing the test. Completely backwards thinking!

    ****

    Overall, glad to see they're making changes. With exception of their waist "fix", I think they're heading in the right direction. My only other recommendation would be to get rid of the minimums and zero points "cliffs," and just go back to just totalling your points. I think if they did that you'd eliminate 99% of the complaints about the waist measurement. If someone is stocky, they can just make up some points by running faster, etc.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    So what is the "DoD BMI standard" ? I have a feeling there is a neck measurement there.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by ubermetroid View Post
    So what is the "DoD BMI standard" ? I have a feeling there is a neck measurement there.
    BMI is just height/weight. Body Fat Measurement includes neck. But I can't remember what the AF standard for BMI was back when they did it if you failed the wiast measurement (back when the standard was much skinnier).

    I looked for DOD BMI standards and I can't find them. There is DOD Body Fat Measurement guidance out there, but no BMI standards that I can find.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by js7799 View Post
    This email went to my junk folder. Wonder if Outlook is trying to tell me something...
    Same here! There must be some truth to it then...being JUNK, that is.
    success...

    I am sure that I am plagiarizing someone.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by ubermetroid View Post
    So what is the "DoD BMI standard" ? I have a feeling there is a neck measurement there.
    Bowel
    Movement
    Index
    success...

    I am sure that I am plagiarizing someone.

    A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice. - Bill Cosby

    Oh I Hate To Wait {oih82w8}

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by Class5Kayaker View Post
    BMI is just height/weight. Body Fat Measurement includes neck. But I can't remember what the AF standard for BMI was back when they did it if you failed the wiast measurement (back when the standard was much skinnier).

    I looked for DOD BMI standards and I can't find them. There is DOD Body Fat Measurement guidance out there, but no BMI standards that I can find.
    For some reason 25 stands out to me, but I think that was to get max points if you failed to have a 32 inch waist.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    2 things - still too much variance in the waist measurement (I cross my fingers hoping I get this one tester who I know pulls the tape a little more snug than this other guy). I don't know which one is "correct" - but I do know they are about an inch apart on their measurements (and they are both trained). I have contested one before, and the next guy came in and asked "what did you get"? Then he goes to tape me and lo and behold, he tapes the same thing. I'd have rather the second person just tape me first, before asking what the other tester got. Just too much variance for such a career impending issue.

    The next thing isn't just looking at people who failed the waist portion. I hate how the points are dispersed for the waist. Just like the testing on one component - if you are 39" inches or less, then you should be considered in standards. The waist should be pass/fail (if we can get the variance out of it). Get rid of the points for waist. Make it a line - you either are over 39", or 39" and under. As it is, the skinnier you are, the less in shape you have to be. If you are exempt from the run for your test, you can be skinny and do 27 pushups/39 situps (weak) - and be golden. But if you are 39" and do 27 pushups, you suck. In fact, you can be 39", do 38 pushups and 48 situps, and still suck.

    At any rate, I don't care how many people failed the AC portion only. I want to know how many scores did the person exceeded the minimums, but still failed because they were 38 or 39" and didn't get squat for points?

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by Class5Kayaker View Post
    ****
    I'm glad they're making some changes, but I hated that they cited their BS Statistics. The reason the numbers were so low was because those that failed the waist got ZERO points for their waist instead of still getting some points. The old chart, you got 11.7 points for a 39.5" waist (12.6 for a passing 39"), the new chart gives you a goose-egg. Here's some more info debunking BMI:
    Great point with the zero cliff, particularly for the waist. I was initially a fan of minimums but I've seen too many people fail by one or two, whose 7 or 8 didn't count, according to the A1C from CE or wherever the hell. Get rid of those and most of the angst would go away. Some movement in the right direction, as you said, but I think this will be the end of any more movement in the right direction. Now, let's see what they do with the EPR.

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    Re: waist stays and....

    Quote Originally Posted by UncommonSense View Post
    For some reason 25 stands out to me, but I think that was to get max points if you failed to have a 32 inch waist.
    According to the CDC:

    <18.5 =Underweight
    18.5 - 24.9 =Normal
    25.0 - 29.9 =Overweight
    30+ =Obese

    If I am not mistaken you needed a BMI less than 25 to get max points. That could be wrong though. I am really skinny and this was never a problem for me. In fact on a couple of PT tests my BMI said I was underweight. I was hoping they wouldn't send me to the weight management program so I could figure out how to gain some weight.

    http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/ass...=155&inches=74

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    By mikezulu1 in forum Air Force
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    Last Post: 09-03-2013, 03:02 PM

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