Page 11 of 20 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 193

Thread: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

  1. #101
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    988
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
    Military members have the unique situation of not being paid hourly, but 24/7. That means we can go home at noon if we're not needed, or stay out in the field for two months straight, or deploy for a year. Obviously with a crazy schedule like that, its in the military's interest to ensure as many of those members are 100%ready for duty - that includes family problems. That's why it absolutely infuriates me when when other NCOs complain that its not their job to "babysit" the junior enlisted. YES, it is - if your team is combat ineffective because you weren't looking out for them, that harms the whole organization.

    For this very reason, the military is a very generous employer, providing benefits that are rare or non-existent in the civilian world. So to me, it sounds petty when people complain about some benefit or another that they don't get. Every single service member is getting a fairly generous deal - it really sounds like a bunch of kids bickering over what flavor of ice cream they're getting that day.

    This is such a tiny group of people, only a portion of which will even use this benefit, I doubt the expense will even be noticable. Our budget problems run much larger than that. Its the equivalent of the Dad who just bought a new RV, car, and motorcycle going into his kids' room and unscrewing all the lightbulbs to "balance the budget".
    Probably my final comparison was a little bit of an exaggeration, we'll call it hyperbole because it was intended to make a point in principle.

    Usually all of these benefits you allude to are there for exactly the reasons you stated, i.e. there is some level of intangible benefits the government receives from offering these tangible benefits in the first place. If a servicemember can't pay his rent for the larger house they have to support a growing family, he won't be as effective a servicemember while he is dealing with these personal issues. Usually the service provides the level of accommodation necessary to resolve this personal business. If it were to get to the point where the person was to become a financial liability, lose a clearance, and face massive legal penalties as a result of "letting it get worse", the DOD tends to lose that servicemember as effectively as if the person was killed in combat or a safety mishap. It's obviously difficult, especially with military manpower, to determine a monetary cost associated with putting an individual in a leave status.

    For me, that's where this doesn't quite pass the litmus test, there really isn't a whole lot of intangible returns for the DOD just by the act of a servicemember's ability to get married on the spot this week or next week or next Christmas standown leave period. So with no ROI, why enact the changes in the first place, and why in such a fashion. I wouldn't be one to make a mountain of this molehill discussion, I won't lose sleep over this, I can tell you that much. To me though, it seems to be a very strong argument when someone asks "Why not have exactly the same policy that was discussed, but make the leave chargeable instead?" There really isn't a strong answer supporting the non-chargeable leave element in this circumstance.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    NATO
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    Probably my final comparison was a little bit of an exaggeration, we'll call it hyperbole because it was intended to make a point in principle.

    Usually all of these benefits you allude to are there for exactly the reasons you stated, i.e. there is some level of intangible benefits the government receives from offering these tangible benefits in the first place. If a servicemember can't pay his rent for the larger house they have to support a growing family, he won't be as effective a servicemember while he is dealing with these personal issues. Usually the service provides the level of accommodation necessary to resolve this personal business. If it were to get to the point where the person was to become a financial liability, lose a clearance, and face massive legal penalties as a result of "letting it get worse", the DOD tends to lose that servicemember as effectively as if the person was killed in combat or a safety mishap. It's obviously difficult, especially with military manpower, to determine a monetary cost associated with putting an individual in a leave status.

    For me, that's where this doesn't quite pass the litmus test, there really isn't a whole lot of intangible returns for the DOD just by the act of a servicemember's ability to get married on the spot this week or next week or next Christmas standown leave period. So with no ROI, why enact the changes in the first place, and why in such a fashion. I wouldn't be one to make a mountain of this molehill discussion, I won't lose sleep over this, I can tell you that much. To me though, it seems to be a very strong argument when someone asks "Why not have exactly the same policy that was discussed, but make the leave chargeable instead?" There really isn't a strong answer supporting the non-chargeable leave element in this circumstance.
    There's always going to be that element of "second guessing." If the military takes #A, there's going to be those who say, "Well why didn't they go with #B?" It seems to me the leadership predicted a potential issue arising from gay marriage, so this policy was put into place proactively to make sure such issues don't happen. Is this a perfect solution? Probably not, but I still applaud the foresight. Too often, as we all know, the military tends to stumble into problems by surprise with no preparation or forethought whatsoever.

  3. #103
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    988
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
    There's always going to be that element of "second guessing." If the military takes #A, there's going to be those who say, "Well why didn't they go with #B?" It seems to me the leadership predicted a potential issue arising from gay marriage, so this policy was put into place proactively to make sure such issues don't happen. Is this a perfect solution? Probably not, but I still applaud the foresight. Too often, as we all know, the military tends to stumble into problems by surprise with no preparation or forethought whatsoever.
    I kind of agree with you there mostly however that non-chargeable leave portion is what upsets the balance and seems to serve no purpose except to fan the flame of envy for those that do get it and the rest that do not. I personally married on my own time and my own dime before re-entering the service and obviously I do not intend to do so again (One goes into marriage with the expectation that it will last, hopefully), so it's not really that big a concern about whether or not I'd be receiving equitable treatment in this scenario. I can just see their point, there's just really no point to that leave being non-chargeable.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

  4. #104
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    NATO
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    I kind of agree with you there mostly however that non-chargeable leave portion is what upsets the balance and seems to serve no purpose except to fan the flame of envy for those that do get it and the rest that do not. I personally married on my own time and my own dime before re-entering the service and obviously I do not intend to do so again (One goes into marriage with the expectation that it will last, hopefully), so it's not really that big a concern about whether or not I'd be receiving equitable treatment in this scenario. I can just see their point, there's just really no point to that leave being non-chargeable.
    In the grand scheme of things ten extra days in a whole career isn't a big deal.

  5. #105
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    988
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
    In the grand scheme of things ten extra days in a whole career isn't a big deal.
    I agree, but to many that's ten whole days the other side does not, hence the dilemma and the point of contention.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

  6. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    NATO
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    I agree, but to many that's ten whole days the other side does not, hence the dilemma and the point of contention.
    True, and that goes back to my point that people are too wrapped up around being envious, instead of just being grateful for what they have.

  7. #107
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    988
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
    True, and that goes back to my point that people are too wrapped up around being envious, instead of just being grateful for what they have.
    Maybe to a degree, but it is a certain degree of justified envy nonetheless.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

  8. #108
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,326
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    The unique status of the leave being non-chargeable mainly is the issue. Nobody else gets that non-chargeable status for their weddings. It could be worse of course, if this scenario applied more than once for an individual and you suddenly had servicemembers having same-sex marriages and divorces every other week we'd have a much bigger problem (Anyone who tells me "They wouldn't do that" has never witnessed the perpetually pregnant female who has been in desk jobs a full career).

    It's imbalanced, probably overcompensating in this instance, apparently the new method of making circumstances fair and equitable is by instituting policies that are unfair and not equitable.
    Exactly.. The powers that be, see what they feel is an injustice, and in attempting to correct it to make things more equitable, make things more UN-equitable.

  9. #109
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    NATO
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Exactly.. The powers that be, see what they feel is an injustice, and in attempting to correct it to make things more equitable, make things more UN-equitable.
    The underlying question is... how are you harmed by this? It seems to me you're angry that someone else got an icecream cone and you didn't.

    To be honest, if I had to spend the last 7 years of my life concealing who I am, out of fear of ridicule, punishment, and other than honorable discharge... all to get ten days of free leave IF I want to get married... uh yeah, not worth it.

  10. #110
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,326
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Re: Gay troops can be authorized up to 10 days of "marriage leave"

    Whether it harms me or not is not reason to NOT be angry about a freebie being handed out to one 'demographic' of society though.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 68
    Last Post: 08-15-2013, 03:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •