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Thread: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

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    Senior Member BURAWSKI's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Spoke too soon. More info follows: http://www.militarycorruption.com/averell.htm

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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by BURAWSKI View Post
    Still don't have all of the facts on this case. I think we all can agree that there is a huge disparity between officer and enlisted when punishment is administered. And back in the day it was fairly common for officer folk to simply walk away from serious transgressions. They were taken care of and looked out for each other. I've seen it before. Enlisted on the other hand were punished most severely in comparison. But back to the issue at hand, we still don't have all the facts. I'd really be interested in hearing the details of the case. There is not enough information to make an informed determination of what really happened. I have to agree that this guy was stupid; I'd never put myself in such a compromising situation to begin with knowing no one had my back.
    Concur.

    Without all the facts presented, none of us can say if the person was convicted and punished propertly or not.

    Based on what was presented here, it sounds like the defendent was definitely guilty of a serious lapse in judgement. It sounds like the female was the junior in rate here. If so, then they possibly took her word over his as the presumption may have been that if he was the senior, he should have been in positive control of the situation and not engaged in sexual conduct with the other party.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Good points, I have heard many people saying that his retirement should have been off the table since he had already gone over 20 years of service.

    Let me rephrase my question:

    When convicted at court martial, should a service member's retirement (who has already passed the minimum years of service for retirement) be automatically excluded from potential forfeitures?

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    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    Good points, I have heard many people saying that his retirement should have been off the table since he had already gone over 20 years of service.

    Let me rephrase my question:

    When convicted at court martial, should a service member's retirement (who has already passed the minimum years of service for retirement) be automatically excluded from potential forfeitures?
    I say no. Serving honorably means exactly that. The responsibility to serve honorably is not measured with a calendar. Regardless of years of service or milestones reached, serve honorably until the end.
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
    -GEN Bruce C. Clarke

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    Senior Member RobotChicken's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    "In the 'Johnnie Walker' RED case, himself and his brother (Ret. LCDR) both were stripped of their retirement completely. Brother due out soon due to age; 82? John still has a few to go."

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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    Good points, I have heard many people saying that his retirement should have been off the table since he had already gone over 20 years of service.

    Let me rephrase my question:

    When convicted at court martial, should a service member's retirement (who has already passed the minimum years of service for retirement) be automatically excluded from potential forfeitures?
    I've seen this question posed several times over the past few years, both here and on military.com.

    In my opinion, no. The member is the one that did the service and qualified for the retirement pay and benefits, and if they engage in misconduct, it should be on the table for forfieture. Now, if the members marriage was dissolved then I can see where a provision should be made to allow the former spouse to collect the retirement as many times they put their lives on hold to follow the person from station to station, and as a result may not be able to compete in the current job market.

    If this needs to be addressed anywhere, it needs to be addressed by the service secretaries first, and if they cannot take action then by Congress if that body can get over it's collective case of Cranial-Rectal Syndrome.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bosun View Post
    The member is the one that did the service and qualified for the retirement pay and benefits, and if they engage in misconduct, it should be on the table for forfieture. Now, if the members marriage was dissolved then I can see where a provision should be made to allow the former spouse to collect the retirement as many times they put their lives on hold to follow the person from station to station, and as a result may not be able to compete in the current job market.
    That is actually one of the better arguments I have heard on that.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    That is actually one of the better arguments I have heard on that.
    I'll go with the other side - I don't believe that it should be on the table for forfeiture.

    The US military is the only employer that I know of, where one cannot become "vested" into its retirement system. I think that needs to change. I suppose that the military can get away with doing this, since members don't pay into their retirement system.

    I imagine that there's going to be a time where having a retirement system that military members do not have to pay into will no longer be economically viable. If this is the case, then actual vesting will become a reality and forfeiture of retirement will be out of the question.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    That is actually one of the better arguments I have heard on that.
    Thank you.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: CPO sentenced for sexual assault

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bosun View Post
    I've seen this question posed several times over the past few years, both here and on military.com.

    In my opinion, no. The member is the one that did the service and qualified for the retirement pay and benefits, and if they engage in misconduct, it should be on the table for forfieture. Now, if the members marriage was dissolved then I can see where a provision should be made to allow the former spouse to collect the retirement as many times they put their lives on hold to follow the person from station to station, and as a result may not be able to compete in the current job market.

    If this needs to be addressed anywhere, it needs to be addressed by the service secretaries first, and if they cannot take action then by Congress if that body can get over it's collective case of Cranial-Rectal Syndrome.
    I'll go the opposite way on this: I don't think that the retirement should be on the table for foreiture.

    If the military's benefits are supposed to be so great; so much better than what civilians get - both in the public sector and private - then it makes no sense that military retirement is not protected by vesting.

    Generally, one is vested in their employer's retirement plan after five years. After that, it can't be touched. Even if the employee is fired for cause.

    I suppose that the reason why the military can get away with yanking your retirement like this, is because military members do not pay into their retirement. Paying into your retirement establishes your "right" to your annuity; something that doesn't happen in the military.

    I do question, however, how long the military is going to be able to keep up a retirement system that military members do not pay into. I imagine that, in the not too distant future, they're not going to be able to afford to do this... and that military members will be paying into it... which will mean that the military will no longer be able to take someone's retirement away after they're vested.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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