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Thread: "Doc" Foglesong

  1. #11
    Senior Member Mr. Happy's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Sweet Mary mother of Jesus, a thread devoted to Doc. Where does one even begin?

    The poster under "Tracy" in the following forum captures the true essence of Doc - http://archive.is/6AEIi It's a little dated, but worth the read...couldn't have said it any better.

    For starters, look at his ribbon rack in his bio - http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5435 He has all those Banana Republic decorations, but not ONE combat or contingency decoration for a flying career spanning 34 years.

    I had the misfortune of being assigned to Osan while he was a full bird wing commander there. One Saturday morning I had to come in and inspect a site, and had inadvertently left a small light on outside our building. While I was out in the areas, I get a call from my controller on the radio that I needed to turn the light off. I was puzzled how he even knew that since the controller was in a different building clear across the base. Turns out Doc was out jogging and had seen it, and started calling all the way down the chain until it reached yours truly. Another time at Osan, I spent an entire hot summer afternoon painting bollards at one of our facilities at the direction of some asshole NCOIC I worked for. He told me to paint them bright yellow so they were visible. No sooner I got to about the last one (about 12 total), Doc apparently drove by and had a shit fit. Suddenly the shop bread van pulls up, and about 5 co-workers bail out to help me paint them back to brown. Guess he raised hell about that.

    Once he made 4 star and was assigned as a USAFE/CC, his craziness reached epic proportions. As stated in the other thread about misuse of Airmen, Doc's Combat Proud programs wasted a lot of man-hours and money on unnecessary focus items. Sure, keep the installations in the command looking good, but in USAFE under his command, it was obsessive! Plus, this was at the height of GWOT operations, so you could imagine Ramstein's ops tempo would be focused on that, and not trash details and firing good commanders over piddly crap around the base. They wasted tons of money building walls to hide EVERYTHING. Tons of money on flowers all over the base. Plus, the roving patrols constantly harped on units about grass being watered. I know it was Germany, but that particular summer was hotter and drier than normal, so everywhere you went on base, the water was running...and water there was not cheap. After getting tired of patrols hounding us about the grass, I finally said F it, and told my guys to leave the sprinklers running 24/7.

    Then he received the Order of the Sword of all honors; even though he was despised by all...yeah.

    How in the hell did this guy rise to the top???

  2. #12
    Senior Member technomage1's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS302 View Post
    What the hell for?
    I was wondering too?
    Newton's First Law of Motion

  3. #13
    Senior Member technomage1's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Happy View Post
    Then he received the Order of the Sword of all honors; even though he was despised by all...yeah.

    How in the hell did this guy rise to the top???
    Darned if I know. We'd have run him through with a sword rather than award it if it was up to us.
    Newton's First Law of Motion

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chief_KO's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    1. Enforced Osan's curfew with a zeal not seen since Attila. Closed the main gate post office annex and had it converted to town patrol hq/holding cells. If you were not past the ID checker building and both feet on Osan AB proper you were apprehended for curfew violation. If you were in line...apprehended.
    2. SFS were instructed to read a statement "Under the orders of _____" 30 minutes prior to curfew. After this was read you were to depart establishment and head back to base.
    3. Put O6s and E9s on Town Patrol.
    4. Expanded town patrol's patrol jurisdiction (and doubled or quadrupled the number of and size of town patrol squads).
    5. Bar owners in Songtan closed up for 6 weeks or so in protest, burning him in effigy at main gate.
    6. Directed SNCOs to live at AF village (off base apartments), and directed JR NCOs back on base (cutting the number of US personnel at facility in half). Sounds all and well, but members forced to move at own expense (could not even use GOV) and had to move even if DEROS was next month.
    7. 51 FW personnel had to carry a Wingman card. If you got in trouble downtown so did your wingman...even if he/she was not with you. (Never go out without your wingman!)
    8. Added his personal jogging route to the exercise no play area.
    9. Interrupted Chapain's sermon one Sunday morn to "Thank Mustangs" for rallying to repair the base after the previous nights thunderstorm.
    10. Instituted the "Enlisted use the side door" if utilizing the snack bar or barber shop at the Officers Club. I refused and told my First Sergeant that I would only do so if there was a sign installed. (there never was).
    11. Closed down the dorm hooches (doubt he touched the flyer's "Heritage Rooms").
    12. Closed down dayrooms to convert to dorm rooms.
    13. My personal favorite that impacted me: Created Command Sponsored and Non-Command sponsored shopping days at the Commissary. (To combat black martketing!)
    TSgt_KO met Mrs_KO at the commissary one evening after work to buy some groceries. (Mrs_KO was/is Korean and thus was "locally acquired" (this is an actual term used then)). Anyway, we went in and showed our USFK Ration Cards to the Commissary Manager (he happened to be working the ID check that afternoon). He said sorry, but Mrs_KO could not come in since it was a Command Sponsored shopping day (there was no signage telling you what day was what). I pleaded my case that she was not shopping, it was I and that she was simply the shopping list. "Sorry" said the mgr, it was the 51 FW/CC policy (that he did not agree with). So, Mrs_KO took a seat and I proceeded to shop. About 2 weeks later there was a base advisory council meeting...I attended. I brought this up to Chief you know who. He asked what I would recommend as a fix. I said first if the member was shopping, the spouse (regardless of status) should be allowed in. Second, there should be a sign outside indicating which day was which so we knew. Chief said he would look into it. About 2 weeks later in the MIG Alley Flyer was an article stating that the Command Sponsored/Non-Command Sponsored Shopping days were being suspended for 30 days to evaluate any differences in shelf inventory/black marketing. Low and behold...no difference, policy was dropped. I wonder if the JAG might have weighed in and told him that he could not exclude bona fide, authorized dependents from using the facility...
    In hindsight I wish I had filed an IG/Congressional, but since it was overturned I went on with life.
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

  5. #15
    Senior Member BOSS302's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_KO View Post
    6. Directed SNCOs to live at AF village (off base apartments), and directed JR NCOs back on base (cutting the number of US personnel at facility in half). Sounds all and well, but members forced to move at own expense (could not even use GOV) and had to move even if DEROS was next month.

    How did he get away with this? Was this before the era of the JFTR and applicable AFIs that spelled-out what one was "entitled" to if forced to move?

    A similar thing was happening at Osan while I was there; many SSgts and TSgts lived off-base due to dorms being renovated. Around April, these dorms re-opened and many Chiefs and squadron commanders were telling their NCOs to get ready to move back on base no matter what their DEROS was.

    The Wing/CC (Mustang 1) let it be known that he would not see any NCOs moving back on base but instead he would see the dorms re-filled through attrition (incoming PCS personnel). It was one of many common sense decisions made by that Wing/CC and I hope that man goes far. Great commander.

  6. #16
    Senior Member BRUWIN's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Time heals all wounds. I think history will vindicate Gen Folgelsong and he will enjoy a legacy comparable to that of other great AF Generals such as Curtis Lemay and Wilbur Creech.

    I also found it very refreshing to walk through the woods of Ramstein AB without the noise of rustling dead leaves beneath my feet.
    "Respect My Authoritah!" - Eric Cartman

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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Yeah, I was at Spang during his reign. Still have the image of him and his fat a** wife standing infront of "Old Triple Seven". I believe Spang won one of those Combat Proud awards, CE friend told they spent $300K to win the $100K award. His F-16 at Spang was vandalized, everyone that worked mids on the flightlight that night got called in for a suprize interogation with OSI at the base theater.

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    Senior Member RobotChicken's Avatar
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS302 View Post
    The Man, the Myth, the Legend.

    Did you have any experiences with him personally? Were you affected by his "Combat" programs?

    Even after retirement, "Doc" ruffled feathers:

    "But, in fairness, Foglesong was probably a poor choice for the MSU post, and we wonder if his nomination would have survived a public confirmation process. While no one has ever doubted Foglesong’s honesty or integrity, he had a reputation in the Air Force for being difficult and arrogant (not exactly rare qualities among fighter pilots).

    One retired senior non-commissioned officer, who served under the general, described him as “jerk.” Another former Air Force member, posting on the MSU student paper's website, claimed that Foglesong's "extreme micro-managing, petty reprisals and 'dodgy' use of military funds were legendary."
    - In From the Cold: "Doc" Steps Down, 2008
    "Hey 'Boss302'; your thread made #3 on google search for the DB thats name will never be mentioned. Watch your 6." LOL!

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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    Long story short, after convincing my entire leadership chain that this kid deserved it, he had a policy that any medals that weren't "typical" (ie only NCOs get AFCMs) that he got to review. At Ramstein he went as far as ordering me to change it to AFAM. I refused. Then things got silly, then I got the LOR. Kid got his AFCM though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TWilliams View Post
    If you don't mind, what is the story behind this?

  10. #20
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    Re: "Doc" Foglesong

    I was at Spangdahlem during Doc's evil reign. He would make surprise visits from Ramstein and the base would go on full alert. Everyone with a vehicle was driving around doing base cleanup (O-6s and Chiefs, too). All orange cones were removed no matter if it caused a safety concerrn. Just total asshattery with his leadership through fear tactics.

    The CE Squadron commander from Spang spent a month TDY at Ramstein at the beginning of Combat Proud. His job was to help get Ramstein into Combat Proud compliance so that it would be the model for other USAFE bases to see what Doc expected. He basically sepnt a month counting how many street lights were out at night, measuring grass height and removing non-standard signs. Great use of a squadron commander, eh? Doc also tried to get the cross walk signs removed. These are the kind on poles that hover over the crosswalk and light it up at night. After many recommendations to leave them in because of German traffic laws and electrical issues in removing them, I think he changed his mind.

    No matter how Gen Hobbins did as the USAFE commander (I think he did OK), he will always have a place in my heart for declaring victory on the Combat programs and stopping them all about a month after taking command.

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