Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 50 of 50

Thread: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They Do?

  1. #41
    Senior Member RobotChicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Williamsburg VA
    Posts
    1,379
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    "We'll see how the 'Tailban' respond to each card works out."

  2. #42
    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    Are GS employees covered under the Geneva Convention? My GS CAC states "Identification Card," but my Active Duty CAC states "Geneva Conventions Identification Card."
    I don't know for certain, but I think a GS will simply be a civilian detainee. I don't think a GS would be considered a POW.
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
    -GEN Bruce C. Clarke

  3. #43
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,936
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    In my experience, there is not a direct comparison between GS levels of responsibility and military ranks levels of responsibility. I worked with a guy that was a GS-12 doing the same tasks that a E4 was doing. In other office, there was a GS6 working along-side O3s, doing the exact same work.
    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    That's because the DOD and the services determine the level of responsibility for ranks. The OPM determines the level of responsibility for GS ranks. There is no logical comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    You are correct. There isn't ANY correlation. There also isn't any correlation between a GS/WG/whatever and any military rank. If you go to the chart that civilians tout to say they are the equiv of a Lt Col or whatever, you will notice it says no such thing...it is a chart to help determine the chain of command in a situation covered by the Geneva Conventions only....oh and POW identification....

    http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...df/100001p.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    As to the original question, this "non-corollary" is likely the source of the "GS make more money" thing. When a GS12 is side by side with an E4 doing the exact same work, is it any wonder?

    Of course, no one pays attention to the other side, when and O3 and GS6 are doing the same work. But what'r'ya gonna do, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverback View Post
    In that example the GS12 is being severly overpaid for doing an E4 job and the GS6 is being underpaid. You see this kind of thing a lot. Personally I would not complain if I was getting paid a GS12 salary to do Airman level work.
    To my knowledge, the GS scale is simply a tool to establish pay for one's job. A cook and an IT specialist may both be doing the same job as an E5 in the military, but they get the GS pay grade that yields the pay that is comparative to what they would receive in the private sector. In that sense, civilians really aren't over or underpaid - the pay is actually in keeping with what the going rate for the particular job is.

    Of course, everyone in the military gets paid the same, based on rank and time in service. Reason being, after all is said and done, anyone can be ordered to pick up a weapon and go fight. In that sense, everyone in the military is the same; with rank being the only differentiator.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  4. #44
    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Of course, everyone in the military gets paid the same, based on rank and time in service. Reason being, after all is said and done, anyone can be ordered to pick up a weapon and go fight. In that sense, everyone in the military is the same; with rank being the only differentiator.
    Pretty much, yeah. I would place more emphasis on the responsibility and authority associated with the rank rather than the rank itself. I always thought the advancement to a certain rank not only was a result of demonstrated technical proficiency but responsibility and accountability for those of a lesser rank in your charge.
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
    -GEN Bruce C. Clarke

  5. #45
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    Are GS employees covered under the Geneva Convention? My GS CAC states "Identification Card," but my Active Duty CAC states "Geneva Conventions Identification Card."
    The Geneva Convention relevance for GS employees is related to how they will be treated since the conventions dictate different treatment for officers and enlisted (where they will be quartered etc). GS-7 and above are in Category 3 (and higher) which equates with offiicers. THIS is the ONLY relevance to any military rank.

    EDIT: And of course there is a relation in Navy protocol
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  6. #46
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    To my knowledge, the GS scale is simply a tool to establish pay for one's job. A cook and an IT specialist may both be doing the same job as an E5 in the military, but they get the GS pay grade that yields the pay that is comparative to what they would receive in the private sector. In that sense, civilians really aren't over or underpaid - the pay is actually in keeping with what the going rate for the particular job is.

    Of course, everyone in the military gets paid the same, based on rank and time in service. Reason being, after all is said and done, anyone can be ordered to pick up a weapon and go fight. In that sense, everyone in the military is the same; with rank being the only differentiator.
    So we agree that you are not 'equal to a 1LT'?
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  7. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    1,671
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    Are GS employees covered under the Geneva Convention? My GS CAC states "Identification Card," but my Active Duty CAC states "Geneva Conventions Identification Card."
    Pretty much EVERYONE on the planet is covered. Civilians are specifically covered under the fourth convention...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

  8. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    DC Metro Area
    Posts
    96
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Re: Why Do Active Duty Personnel Think Government Civilans Make More Money Than They

    I've scanned a little of this, and will admit to not seeing all the back and forth.

    If I was to be recalled to active duty as a Chief with dependents my gross pay and allowances would be $75,165.24 per year. As to what my take home would be I can't speculate as we get involved in tax advantages for the non-pay compensation, some kind of supplemental allowance for rations I saw mentioned for dependents (have no clue what that's about) and so forth.

    My civilian pay before losing money due to furloughs and not taking into account the OT I worked to soften the blow for furloughs (and more importantly, to get the job done) would be roughly $78,000 - that is approximately GS-11 Step 8 if I was under the old GS system.

    Probably the biggest issue is a lot of folks don't look at the full picture, vice looking at only parts of it.

    Someone said that civilians don't deploy, etc. I know more than a few whose position description contains the word "DEPLOYABLE" in it, and end up in theater working alongside the active duty military to accomplish the mission.

    Yes, my GS grade equates to a grade for a commissioned officer with regard to certain things, although not necessarily with regard to what I do and the responsibility I have. In fact, I work with a retired Army Major and both of us are in the same grade and are non-supervisory personnel. The GS to military paygrade equation gets into what I would qualify for if I went on travel and had to stay in on-base government quarters, etc. But then, I got treated a lot better pulling out my retiree military ID card vice my civilian ID when it came to on-base services while on official travel.

    But then, perception has a tendency to make things appear to be accurate when they in reality are not.

  9. #49
    Newbie - (Restricted)
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    There is a difference between the pay but one thing they have in common is the EMBEDDED LINK REMOVED

    EDIT

    PLEASE REFER TO THE COMMUNITY GUIDELINES:

    Hyperlinks

    Including links to informative and helpful sites is part of Internet communication. Choosing to click on a link is your decision. We do not screen links. However, posts may be removed if a hyperlink is not in the following format -- www.wheredoesthislinkgo.com or .org or any number of acceptable addresses. The key here is no hidden agendas. Tell us where the link goes so our members may make informed decisions on whether to click or not. Remember: We do not screen links in posts, but may remove a post if the link is determined to be inappropriate.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 06-14-2014 at 11:41 PM.

  10. #50
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    2,965
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    @Chief Bosun

    Did not mean to dislike your post. The iPad screen got me.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •