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Thread: Atheist vs Christian Debate

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Question I've been pondering: if Satan is punishing the unsaved, isn't a he a good guy?
    Well, judging from how Satan treats people on South Park, he's not really that bad at all. Maybe he's just misunderstood by Christians?

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Question I've been pondering: if Satan is punishing the unsaved, isn't a he a good guy?
    Satan isn't punishing the unsaved.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Satan isn't punishing the unsaved.
    Explain that one to me. Satan has a whole realm (i.e., Hell), where he sees to it that those who are sent there are tortured for eternity. How is Satan, then, not punishing the unsaved?

    Looks to me like God and Satan are on the same team.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Explain that one to me. Satan has a whole realm (i.e., Hell), where he sees to it that those who are sent there are tortured for eternity. How is Satan, then, not punishing the unsaved?

    Looks to me like God and Satan are on the same team.
    Hell is the "destination" after the judgment. Satan still has "access" to God and isn't currently ruling Hell because there is no Hell yet (assuming we look at time as a linear thing, but that's an entirely different discussion). Just as we are allowed to make choices, Satan is also allowed to do what he does. After the judgment he will also face the eternal torture/suffering as will everyone else who isn't saved.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Hell is the "destination" after the judgment. Satan still has "access" to God and isn't currently ruling Hell because there is no Hell yet (assuming we look at time as a linear thing, but that's an entirely different discussion). Just as we are allowed to make choices, Satan is also allowed to do what he does. After the judgment he will also face the eternal torture/suffering as will everyone else who isn't saved.
    Woah, are you a Seventh Day Adventist?
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Woah, are you a Seventh Day Adventist?
    Nope...why?

    I've said many times that I'm non-denominational. To be a 7th day I'd have to believe that baptism is a must.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Nope...why?

    I've said many times that I'm non-denominational. To be a 7th day I'd have to believe that baptism is a must.
    Okay, but here's the thing... you and I both know that no two "non-denominational" churches are the same. They're all GOING to have beliefs and doctrines that are specific to certain denominations, more often than not, the denomination that the pastor broke away from when he or she founded that church. My wife goes to a non-denomination church. Within two visits to that church, I could tell right away that this church wasn't far removed from Southern Baptism. Your "non-denominational" church, if they teach what you just said here, sounds like it's not far removed from Seventh Day Adventism. Either that, or you may have been before you started going to your current church.

    That people don't go to heaven or hell until Christ's second coming when he renders judgment is a Seventh Day Adventist belief. They invented that. Though, it's not impossible that some "non-denominational" churches also believe that.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Okay, but here's the thing... you and I both know that no two "non-denominational" churches are the same. They're all GOING to have beliefs and doctrines that are specific to certain denominations, more often than not, the denomination that the pastor broke away from when he or she founded that church. My wife goes to a non-denomination church. Within two visits to that church, I could tell right away that this church wasn't far removed from Southern Baptism. Your "non-denominational" church, if they teach what you just said here, sounds like it's not far removed from Seventh Day Adventism. Either that, or you may have been before you started going to your current church.

    That people don't go to heaven or hell until Christ's second coming when he renders judgment is a Seventh Day Adventist belief. They invented that. Though, it's not impossible that some "non-denominational" churches also believe that.
    For one, I don't go to church, so I don't have a "non-denominational church". I am non-denominational. I don't believe that any man, or church, can teach me my beliefs.

    I also don't believe, or care, whether Saturday or Sunday is the Sabbath. I don't believe that I have to "witness" to people, other than by the way I live my life. I don't care about the entire "eat healthy, your body is your temple" thing. So that's 3 of the big tenets of 7th day that already take me far away from that denomination. Add in the baptism by water and that's 4.

    Again, I don't go to church and haven't in over 20 years. I don't watch people on TV and I don't "attend" online.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Explain that one to me. Satan has a whole realm (i.e., Hell), where he sees to it that those who are sent there are tortured for eternity. How is Satan, then, not punishing the unsaved?

    Looks to me like God and Satan are on the same team.
    Satan even visits God right along with the other Angels. Plus, they make gentlemanly bets with each other like old pals.

    Job 1 New International Version (NIV)

    Prologue
    1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

    4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

    6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

    Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

    8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

    9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

    12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

    Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.


    13 One day when Job’s sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

    16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The fire of God fell from the heavens and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

    17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

    18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

    20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:

    “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
    and naked I will depart.[c]
    The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
    may the name of the Lord be praised.”
    22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
    This story is not much different than the 1980s movie, Trading Places, when the Duke Brothers destroy Dan Akroyd's life over a $1 bet.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

  10. #30
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    For one, I don't go to church, so I don't have a "non-denominational church". I am non-denominational. I don't believe that any man, or church, can teach me my beliefs.

    I also don't believe, or care, whether Saturday or Sunday is the Sabbath. I don't believe that I have to "witness" to people, other than by the way I live my life. I don't care about the entire "eat healthy, your body is your temple" thing. So that's 3 of the big tenets of 7th day that already take me far away from that denomination. Add in the baptism by water and that's 4.

    Again, I don't go to church and haven't in over 20 years. I don't watch people on TV and I don't "attend" online.
    So you have in essence invented your own religion. One that doesn't require much effort on your part either.

    If you think we atheists are being mean to you, I would really like to hear you talk to an average pastor about your approach to Christianity.

    They'd have you in tears, or stomping off in an angry huff in a matter of minutes.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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