Page 21 of 21 FirstFirst ... 11192021
Results 201 to 209 of 209

Thread: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

  1. #201
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Oh, but I did. I referenced USN-Retired's rants. You need not even look beyond this thread.
    Is it your position that USN’s statements are the conservative position? If so, what besides him and his MTF posts do you base this on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    No, I asked if you denied that the poor get trashed on MTF. Before you answer that question, be sure to read USN-Retired's posts.
    I thought I was pretty clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    No, YOU might be having this discussion NOW for that reason but WE are having this discussion because you AGAIN chose to insert an irrelevant and baseless statement into a post and I called you on it. You still haven’t stated what you believe the conservative position on entitlement programs to be.

    Deny that like you people on the MTF post irrelevant and ludicrous things? No I don’t deny that.
    Let me be clearer. Bashing the poor for being poor would indeed fall into the category of irrelevant and ludicrous. As would defending the poor regardless of actions and facts because they are poor.

    Both ice cream, different flavor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    No, you wanted examples of what I'm talking about. These two posters, as well as a few others, post exactly what I'm talking about. I have no clue how missed them. I'm simply trying to give you what you asked for.
    The only thing I believe I have ‘asked’ you for is your understanding of the conservative position on entitlement programs. Again, is it your position that USN’s statements are that position? If so, what besides him and his MTF posts do you base this on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I don't know your feelings toward the poor, because you've never stated it. Or, if you did, I missed it. I'm contrasting you with people like USN-Retired.
    So in order for my argument over your hyperbole to have weight I have to tell you my opinion of the poor? I am really missing the logic here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Didn't you say that the conservative belief is that money shouldn't come from a lack of hard work? Wouldn't your position contradict that?

    Anyway, that would be a contradiction. The lazy calling the lazy lazy. Strange how that works, isn't?


    So no you're ignoring the people who were born into wealth.
    So people born into wealth are all lazy? Is that your position?

    You seem to have forgotten part of my response. I am sure it was an oversight.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    My rewording of your ill-stated belief was just that, a more accurate reading. I don’t know if that would actually be a conservative belief or just a universally held American belief but the road to success is certainly through hard work and should not be through the lack of hard work and unless you want to count tax payers as the source I would say the origins of wealth among the rich was hard work and that is the key fallacy in your comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    The fact that USN-Retired confirmed exactly what I said, and screwed up the picture of conservatives that you were trying to pain.
    What has my not posting have to do with anything USN says?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Nope.
    So we agree the comparison is flawed.
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  2. #202
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,329
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Okay, now what?
    That there would be yet another acronym i didn't know what it meant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Your VA rep is lying to you. Your unemployment is offset by any other compensation you receive, so if you got something else, he may have been right. Other than that, it's sounds like he was trying to scare you into reenlisting.
    What of us retirees? Is that different? If that's the case i have been screwed royally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    For as long as they can show that they're making a legitimate effort.
    So IYO someone can claim unemployment for 10+ years as long as they show they have 'made an effort' to get a job.. sorry bub, but i disagree. Also what constitutes a "legitimate effort'? Who decides that? Who checks on it? What punishment (If any) will get levied on those who are NOT making it??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    But there's less of them. The poor having more money to spend is what will get the economy moving.
    How so? Lets say that for every rich person (say half a mil or more), there are 500 poor folk. Each poor person lets say has what, 200 bucks a month spending money (after bills), while each rich person has 10k to spend a month.. That is the same amount of money by ratio.
    Or do you feel there is more than 500 poor people to each rich person??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You're damned right it is; and that's what needs to happen.
    Sorry, but that sounds wayyy to socialist to me. If i wanted to live in that sort of society i would move my ass to russia.

    Sounds like you are Sauna re-imagined.

  3. #203
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,936
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Is it your position that USN’s statements are the conservative position? If so, what besides him and his MTF posts do you base this on...

    ... The only thing I believe I have ‘asked’ you for is your understanding of the conservative position on entitlement programs. Again, is it your position that USN’s statements are that position? If so, what besides him and his MTF posts do you base this on.
    USN isn't the only one. There are others, though they're not as bad as he is. Like WJ5. Then we've got Mitt Romney's speech on the 47%, we've got Laura Ingram, Mancow, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh... I mean, please, show me a conservative who is well known to the public that DOESN'T think like the people I've mentioned!

    Of those on MTF, at least the ones who are more outspoken on their political belief; Pullinteeth is really the only saving grace for the conservatives here.

    Like I said, I really don't know much of your stances on things - you could be more like Pullinteeth, you could be more like USN... I honestly don't know which.

    I thought I was pretty clear.

    Let me be clearer. Bashing the poor for being poor would indeed fall into the category of irrelevant and ludicrous. As would defending the poor regardless of actions and facts because they are poor.

    Both ice cream, different flavor.
    The basis that I have for defending the poor for it's own sake - and I haven't mentioned it on this thread, but I have elsewhere in the past - is that they have no power to write bills, or sign or veto anything into law. They can't hire or fire anyone; nor are they in positions to influence those in power. Just like us, they're playing the game that they didn't make the rules to. You want to be pissed at someone, get pissed at the people who make the rules; and those with the power to influence them.

    So in order for my argument over your hyperbole to have weight I have to tell you my opinion of the poor? I am really missing the logic here.
    Forget it.

    So people born into wealth are all lazy? Is that your position?
    If they're not working, they are. Unless you can show me a definition of the word "lazy," where not being rich is part of the definition.

    You seem to have forgotten part of my response. I am sure it was an oversight.

    What has my not posting have to do with anything USN says?
    Looks like these issues are resolved.

    So we agree the comparison is flawed.
    Yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    That there would be yet another acronym i didn't know what it meant.
    Okay.

    What of us retirees? Is that different? If that's the case i have been screwed royally.
    Like I said before, unemployment is offset by any other compensation that you receive. I know that in Virginia, 20-year E6 retirement pay is higher than the maximum unemployment; which means that you're not getting a dime in unemployment.

    So IYO someone can claim unemployment for 10+ years as long as they show they have 'made an effort' to get a job.. sorry bub, but i disagree. Also what constitutes a "legitimate effort'? Who decides that? Who checks on it? What punishment (If any) will get levied on those who are NOT making it??
    Have you ever collected unemployment before? You have to apply for at least two jobs per week, and be able to show that. Do I believe that the requirements should be more stringent here in Virginia? Of course; I can understand two applications per week before everyone had the internet, so that needs to be updated; and they also need to specifically require you to apply for jobs you qualify for, so that you don't someone with only a high school diploma applying to be a dentist or other jobs that they know they're not going to get.

    Other than that, what's really the likelihood that someone who's making a legitimate effort to find a job isn't going to be able to in ten years?

    How so? Lets say that for every rich person (say half a mil or more), there are 500 poor folk. Each poor person lets say has what, 200 bucks a month spending money (after bills), while each rich person has 10k to spend a month.. That is the same amount of money by ratio.
    Or do you feel there is more than 500 poor people to each rich person??
    ...and I'm saying that, percentage wise, no one should be paying a lower percentage in taxes than someone who makes less money.

    Sorry, but that sounds wayyy to socialist to me. If i wanted to live in that sort of society i would move my ass to russia.

    Sounds like you are Sauna re-imagined.
    Oh, brother. It's the "but... but... that's SOCIALIST" argument. I think it's time we look past the fear of a word.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  4. #204
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    So we agree the comparison is flawed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Yeah...
    Thus the only issue my posts have addressed is settled. All that other stuff was distraction.
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  5. #205
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    1,671
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I don't believe that who you are born to should dictate whether or not an action, or inaction, is moral. Like it or not, someone born into money who doesn't work is LAZY, just like the person who wasn't born into money. No definition of laziness in any dictionary will make reference to someone's net worth.
    Who said anything about laziness? If you can AFFORD to be lazy, go right ahead. That doesn't mean you have strong moral fiber. With that, i agree. However, to say that someone being lazy when they know that it means someone else will have to support them, THAT does reflect poor character. Does it mean they are the worst person in the world? Absolutely not but it is a character flaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    Your prepared to make a judgement about another person's character absent any other information about them other than whether they are receiving unemployment? Really? And not just one person, based on your prior statements, but about an entire group of people regardless of any of their individual circumstances.

    You wonder why Rusty is objecting to your point of view. And have the nerve to call yourself a person of "moral fiber"?
    Apparently you can't read. Rusty said the person CHOOSES not to work and wants the taxpayer to support them...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

  6. #206
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,329
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Have you ever collected unemployment before? You have to apply for at least two jobs per week, and be able to show that. Do I believe that the requirements should be more stringent here in Virginia? Of course; I can understand two applications per week before everyone had the internet, so that needs to be updated; and they also need to specifically require you to apply for jobs you qualify for, so that you don't someone with only a high school diploma applying to be a dentist or other jobs that they know they're not going to get.
    Not yet. Left schooling in England before i got to 'working age' and came stateside to do 1 yr of high school before i joined up. Did my 20 and am now out. So not had any time to be 'unemployed' (well other than now i am retired)
    As for the requirements, how do they 'ensure that those people ARE making those applications? Since most everything these days has gone ot only on line applications, how is that checked?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Other than that, what's really the likelihood that someone who's making a legitimate effort to find a job isn't going to be able to in ten years?
    That's why i was asking what is legitimate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    ...and I'm saying that, percentage wise, no one should be paying a lower percentage in taxes than someone who makes less money.
    So make the percentage the same across the board.. Period. No deductions, no credits, no havens.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,936
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Not yet. Left schooling in England before i got to 'working age' and came stateside to do 1 yr of high school before i joined up. Did my 20 and am now out. So not had any time to be 'unemployed' (well other than now i am retired)

    As for the requirements, how do they 'ensure that those people ARE making those applications? Since most everything these days has gone ot only on line applications, how is that checked?

    That's why i was asking what is legitimate?
    That's easy.

    First, require them to keep a log of the jobs they've applied to. For each line on the log, you have the name of the company, the title of the position, the website URL, and the the username. In fact, I did this myself while I was unemployed - even though I didn't have to - just to keep track of the statuses of all of my applications.

    Since it would be cost prohibitive to check on everyone every week, you simply do a surprise spot check on each person at random intervals. You check their log, you pick out a week, and you have them sign into the websites that they logged and show you their submitted applications.

    If they didn't apply for the minimum number of jobs for which they are qualified, then unemployment stops.


    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    So make the percentage the same across the board.. Period. No deductions, no credits, no havens.
    No. I said no one who makes more should be paying a lower percentage than someone who makes less.

    When you get below a certain income level... say, the poverty line or maybe a level that's a few brackets above that... then, yes, the percentages should go down. I can afford, say, 25%; a billionaire can afford it; but someone jocking a cash register at Walmart probably won't be able to.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  8. #208
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    everywhere
    Posts
    699
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    Apparently you can't read. Rusty said the person CHOOSES not to work and wants the taxpayer to support them...
    I can read, including the things you write, which is what I was commenting on. If I want to comment on what rusty wrote, I would direct my comment at him.

  9. #209
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Re: Extended Unemployment a Civil Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    I can read, including the things you write, which is what I was commenting on. If I want to comment on what rusty wrote, I would direct my comment at him.
    His comments were in direct response to YOUR words. You cited Rusty in your post and he clarified why what Rusty wrote would open someone up to be judged for being on unemployment. Not the mere fact of being on unemployment but the the hypothetical person Rusty cited CHOSE not to seek employment.

    I understood that. Perhaps you should reread the discussion.
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •