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Thread: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

  1. #21
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    Exodus 21:24 King James Version (KJV)

    24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
    You put your left foot in
    You take your left foot out
    You put your right foot in
    And shake it all about
    -- The Hokey Pokey
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." -- Peter Clemenza.

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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by technomage1 View Post
    Next dining out, change of command, promotion ceremony, wing run, etc I'm going to take the podium and drone on for 5 minutes about atheism. Those that don't like it, they can just sit (or stand) quietly and listen to it. I'm also going to have a Darwin Lunch, use base facilities for it, and have CC's send out invites to their troops via official email. I'm going to email invitations to my subordinates for the American Atheist national convention. Then I'm going to put in an AFI that people should seek to be logically fullfilled. I'm also going to put the atomic atheist symbol on the base water tower. But, hey, I'm not forcing anyone to believe it.

    Still feel the same way? Now relax, I'm not going to do any of that. I wouldn't even if I could. It's one thing to share your faith - or lack of it - when asked or to be open about who you are. It's another to run screaming through the halls with it. It's like the folks who set up roadside stands with pamphlets or rent a billboard vs. those who knock on your door at 0700 on a Saturday. One is OK, the other is really freaking annoying.

    That's what this guidance is about. That difference between passive and active faith. That line between existing and practicing your beliefs, and interferring with the rights of others in the workplace.
    Now would you be serving spaghetti at the Darwin Lunch in honor of The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Just to be fair to us Pastafarians...
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." -- Peter Clemenza.

  3. #23
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    Would it make you feel better if they specifically pointed to you and said, "You my friend, please feel free to take a moment of silence while those of us who beleive in God say a short prayer"?...Since you're obviously butt hurt about it.


    No, not really. You're avoiding the point. It's not just about me. Seriously, change it to a Satanic prayer and Christians can stand in silence. Christians would flip the fuck out and say they are being opressed. You would too, don't lie. See where I am going with this? I don't care what you pray to....just keep it at home, where it belongs.

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    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Here is a question: Has anyone here ever heard anything except for a Christian prayer at a military gathering? I'm serious. I haven't, but I was just wondering...I would bet the answer is no, and it never would happen. See the problem?

  5. #25
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Here is a question: Has anyone here ever heard anything except for a Christian prayer at a military gathering? I'm serious. I haven't, but I was just wondering...I would bet the answer is no, and it never would happen. See the problem?
    yes.......

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    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    No, not really. You're avoiding the point. It's not just about me. Seriously, change it to a Satanic prayer and Christians can stand in silence. Christians would flip the fuck out and say they are being opressed. You would too, don't lie. See where I am going with this? I don't care what you pray to....just keep it at home, where it belongs.
    Tell me where in the 1st Amendment is says you only have freedom of speech and religion within the boundaries of your own home...Oh yeah...it doesn't.

  7. #27
    Tak
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by chipotleboy View Post
    You put your left foot in
    You take your left foot out
    You put your right foot in
    And shake it all about
    -- The Hokey Pokey
    God is not amused...

    ...but I am

  8. #28
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    Tell me where in the 1st Amendment is says you only have freedom of speech and religion within the boundaries of your own home...Oh yeah...it doesn't.
    Once again, you are dancing around....I can see where this is going. No real rebuttals to any of the good points and examples I gave. You gave up that right to free speach when you enlisted.

  9. #29
    Senior Member technomage1's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    Glad you're are an expert on what is being proposed, but what you just claimed was the intent of this guidance is and what this article says are in conflict.
    Sadlly the article, like so many news sources today, is biased and fear mongering. Proselytizing hasn't been permitted, at least in the AF, for years, though enforcement has been sketchy.

    You can read the text of the policy that the MRRF and the Pentagon met about and discussed at
    http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/pr...1-1/afi1-1.pdf.

    Sections 2.11 is the section in question, which reads:

    "2.11. Government Neutrality Regarding Religion. Leaders at all levels must balance constitutional protections for an individual’s free exercise of religion or other personal beliefs and the constitutional prohibition against governmental establishment of religion. For example, they must avoid the actual or apparent use of their position to promote their personal religious beliefs to their subordinates or to extend preferential treatment for any religion. Commanders or supervisors who engage in such behavior may cause members to doubt their impartiality and objectivity. The potential result is a degradation of the unit’s morale, good order, and discipline. Airmen, especially commanders and supervisors, must ensure that in exercising their right of religious free expression, they do not degrade morale, good order, and discipline in the Air Force or degrade the trust and confidence that the public has in the United States Air Force."

    The Pentagon is looking at adopting similar language for all branches, hence the discussion with MRRF. I'm sure they've asked religous groups as well.
    Newton's First Law of Motion

  10. #30
    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell is Coming Back

    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Here is a question: Has anyone here ever heard anything except for a Christian prayer at a military gathering? I'm serious. I haven't, but I was just wondering...I would bet the answer is no, and it never would happen. See the problem?
    Has anyone ever asked to say another type of prayer at a military gathering and been denied? Until you can factually answer that question, your's is basically irrelevant.

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