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Thread: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by Shove_your_stupid_meeting View Post
    Did anyone here happen to attend? I caught some tidbits second hand, but I was hoping someone else might be able to confirm some of the info that was passed along to me. Among other things, I was told:

    - Like so many others, he feels our rating system could be flawed. Like many before him, he preached accurate ratings (i.e. don't hand out 5s like candy). The idea of marking one down for not completing PME commensurate with their rank was mentioned (i.e. MSgt without course 14 accomplished). Now what didn't get relayed to me is his thoughts about EPRs and the points they earn you, which brings me to the next point of interest.

    - I heard he feels the scoring for promotions might need to be refined as well. Apparently he wonders why a SrA that makes SSgt at 6 years should get more points to help him/her make SSgt than a SrA making SSgt at 4 years. Now what wasn't relayed to me is the fact that there had been a trend of fewer people testing for years now, yet a higher rate of people being promoted, so I'm not sure that the "too many Chiefs and not enough Indians" epidemic is a concern, despite fiscal uncertainties. My point, is that it's easier to lead if there's actually someone to lead & if money is such a concern, perhaps we should reconsider how quickly some of these stripes are being handed out?

    - I heard about another PT change on the horizon. The Cliff's Notes version sounded like there's a concern that the PT test hasn't done enough to get rid of or "reform" some folks that may not represent the image the Air Force would like to portray. There was talk about bringing back measurements of the neck as well. Unfortunately, this is all I was told on the subject.

    - Naturally, money came up as well. Apparently there's talk of retirements becoming 401Ks in the future. I was told that he clarified it shouldn't happen to anyone wearing a uniform right now, or those that are already retired, but those thinking of joining down the road may not receive the same benefits. Speaking of benefits, I heard he mentioned that we'll all have to chip in more to TriCare, because there's no way we can continue to receive what we do now without paying more. Interestingly enough, it also sounded like he spoke about sequestration as if it was going to happen, and we can count on readiness being effected by mid May (I've heard the same at a HQ).

    Now despite the fact that it will probably seem like b.s., I'm honestly not trying to start any rumors here. What I am hoping for is that someone here has heard him speak recently, and perhaps they can verify some of this and maybe even elaborate. If not, nevermind.
    I don't think we need to go so far as having a checklist that spits a rating out at the end, but it would go a long way to normalizing ratings if there were some items that drove consequences. Not getting senior rater without CCAF/PME was a good start, but like PT, it still isn't driving true change. So how about taking away Sr rater on your first TIG eligible EPR. Next EPR and it still isn't done, it can't be a 5. Next one, can't be a 4. Would send a very clear message on the importance of getting these done, as well as socializing the fact that not everyone is a 5. Hate to make it like PT, where one "standard" becomes more important that others, but that is one way we can begin to push ratings down and identify who's really earning 5. Just my random thought of the day.

    Not sure what you're saying about SrA/SSgts? Why WOULDN'T you give credit for experience?!? I've heard discussion (not "officially") of promoting people based on their raw scores instead of TIG and if the 4 year SrA scored higher than the 6 year on, promoting them first, but nothing at all about getting rid of TIG/TIS points. The top 2 grades are limited to 2% & 1%, so there is no issue with pushing too many to those grades (and that number gets smaller as the force draws down); below that, there are only so many billets, so higher promotion rates just indicate more folks have vacated current billets in that grade. We're not going to end up with too many MSgts, TSgts...

    Haven't heard anything about neck measurements or fatties being targeted. Here, Gen Welsh said he'd take ONE look at PT in his tenure and leave it alone. He did mention that, unlike Chief Cody, HE had to watch his waist, so he's aware of how much impact that element carries, so I wouldn't think he'd choose to focus more attention on that area.

    The military retirement system HAS to change! Life expectancy gets longer every year. There is no way to sustain paying people the current levels of retirement pay for 60+ years. That'll be a tough nut to crack, as there has to be SOME sort of significant incentive to stay to/past 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    Yeh, I think a 401k would be a marvelous idea. You are damned near left with nothing after years of service. The GI bill is good but its sort of like getting a gift certificate to the Olive Garden when actually wanted one for Netflix. You get out what you put in.
    With the lean financial times coming, I can't see them continuing the "new" GI bill; we'll be lucky to keep the benefits as-is for AD folks, but I see the transferability going away. Another expensive program; by restricting it to AD, they're confident that a fair number of folks won't use it and it'll be money they don't have to spend. Opening it up to families significantly reduces that margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renazance View Post
    NEGATIVE Gen Welsh and Chief Cody, the change needs to come from the top! You guys need to change the culture of viewing anything less than a 5 as subpar and eliminate the stigma of it. The AF isn't gonna listen to us lowly NCOs and CGOs who want to pioneer these changes, but they will take your words as gospel. Start by eliminating the "must have 5s on last 3 EPRs" on job postings and special duty requirements. Start by addressing your wing, group, squadron commanders and SELs to tell them that supervisors shouldn't have to justify a 3 or 4 rating and that they should thoroughly scrutinize all 5s that come across their desk.

    Chief Cody, I sure hope you don't follow in your predecessor's and give us nothing but lip service. We've had enough of that. Don't make statements, make moves!
    I have to agree that this MUST be pushed from the top. I've seen too many battles over "markdowns" from unit leadership (mostly Os, but some Es). Back to the discussion from another thread, I love whoever came up with the idea of only having a few bullets for 3/4 EPRs and exploiting the general trend of lazy supervisors, who if they only had to write 4 bullets for a 3/4 or 20 for a 5, they'll take the easy way out! If someone's done the work to come up with 20 hard hitting bullets that will justify a 5, they'll be easy to write. If this isn't an across the board mindset-shift, it'll never work. We've got to start looking at 4/5s as MARK-UPs. Easier said than done I know, but if commanders are made to believe that this is what the CSAF expects, hopefully they'll get on board.

    Must come with allowances for not everyone to be perfect and not have doors slammed in their face. Do great work and have 4s, why shouldn't you still get a job, decoration, or award?

    As much as I understand it had no impact last time, I think it has to come with a revision to the EPR ratings. I know going from 9 to 5 didn't change the inclination to give everyone the top rating and we went right back to doing it. But by changing it up, it at least opens the opportunity to reset everyone's mindset and if combined with a sustained push to reward outstanding performance and not stigmatize being average or "only" above average.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    For all those wanting the AF to "fix" the EPR system from the Pentagon, be careful what you ask for you just might get it. When the EPR replaced the APR there was "recommended guidance" regarding overall ratings. While a formal quota system was not put in place, it was recommended that only a certain percentage (I forget the number) of Airmen in a workcenter should receive the "5" rating. Well, for those of us around back then that was NOT embraced by the masses. I remember as a young TSgt, the unit I was assigned to had a policy that if you were not enrolled in or completed your PME correspondence (there was NCOA correspondence then), you would not receive a 5. My boss, a MSgt did not complete his SNCOA (C), was a hard worker, good supervisor, etc. but received a "4". Needless to say, this TSgt did his NCOA (C). For those bemoaning bullet writing, read the old APRs when complete sentences (with mandatory/recommended headings) were used. Trust me, bullets are better.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    "he clarified it shouldn't happen to anyone wearing a uniform right now..."

    Hard to know your version of his intent here since "shouldn't" has at least two very different meanings.

    Simple truth is he doesn't know and doesn't have any role in deciding.
    Spot on...just like when Panneta "promised" that any changes wouldn't impact those currently serving....he can SAY whatever he wants but even the SecDef doesn't get to make the call. He can make reccommendations but it isn't his decision to make.


    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    The top 2 grades are limited to 2% & 1%, so there is no issue with pushing too many to those grades (and that number gets smaller as the force draws down); below that, there are only so many billets, so higher promotion rates just indicate more folks have vacated current billets in that grade.
    Not EXACTLY completely true....
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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by VFFTSGT View Post
    Chief Roy talked a good game at first too...

    Talk is cheap...
    Amen to that...
    Formerly Enigmatic Airman...

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    Back to the discussion from another thread, I love whoever came up with the idea of only having a few bullets for 3/4 EPRs and exploiting the general trend of lazy supervisors, who if they only had to write 4 bullets for a 3/4 or 20 for a 5, they'll take the easy way out! If someone's done the work to come up with 20 hard hitting bullets that will justify a 5, they'll be easy to write.
    I mentioned that a while ago. Yay me.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I actually like the idea of military retirement moving to a 401K style plan. Think about all of the possible benefits:

    1. Gives people an option to leave the military at any point. Just look at the disgruntled people on here who have 12 years in but have to stay for 8 more years if they want anything in the way of retirement compensation for their time.

    2. People already view the military as a job. With a 401K that is now portable we can acquire some talented people that are only interested in serving 1 or 2 enlistments for altruistic reasons.

    3. The 401K money would be dumped into the stock market thus making capital avaliable to corporations and also creating jobs for stock traders and financial analysts.

    Now when I say that I support the 401K system I mean that it should be phased in. The plan I support is the most commonly talk about one where people over 18 years are unaffected, people at 16 years get a small portion of retirement plus a proportional 401K, people at 12 get a slight retiremnt and more 401K match, and continue this all the way down to new recruits only recieveing a 401K and no pension. The only caveat I would add is possibly making the military 401K tax exempt. Other than that I see plenty of beefits to moving to this system.
    Yes, because the big Corporations and Wall street haven't already raped enough working class Americans in private industry out of their retirements. Now they need to go after the only pool of money left? Police pensions and Military retirement are bankrupting the country? Give me a fucking break. Any current Military leader that thinks this is a good idea for the military going down the road should be ashamed of themselves. The 401K system is going to collapse when all the baby boomers retire and start dumping shares on the market. Then they'll lock down the credit and come to the taxpayer with their handout demanding another taxpayer bailout or the economy will collapse.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    I think we should drop the EPR from testing, the averages are usually around 130 anyway. There should instead be negative points assessed for getting in trouble which is usually the reason behind a lower rating in the first place.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Yes, because the big Corporations and Wall street haven't already raped enough working class Americans in private industry out of their retirements. Now they need to go after the only pool of money left? Police pensions and Military retirement are bankrupting the country? Give me a fucking break. Any current Military leader that thinks this is a good idea for the military going down the road should be ashamed of themselves. The 401K system is going to collapse when all the baby boomers retire and start dumping shares on the market. Then they'll lock down the credit and come to the taxpayer with their handout demanding another taxpayer bailout or the economy will collapse.
    Exactly how much stock do you think baby boomers who are about to retire own? Any financial advisor would recommend a person diversify. They also recommend that the closer you to get to retiring the less stock you should own. At this point baby boomers are buying highly rated bonds, gold, and CDs. Your logic makes no sense on this response. Also the 401K managers would clearly be smart enough to have the money diversified as well. Just look at the rate of return on TSP. Even in a down market years it has not been bad at all.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    For those calling for a "401k" type system, we already have that its called the TSP. TSP is the exact same as a "401k" just with a different name, in fact its the lowest costing 401k program in the country by FAR. We just dont get an employer match, most people who work for a company that has a 401k dont receive a match either. We get a pension on top of it, if you are a 20 yr MSGT and retire you get a pension that is the equivilent of having about $1.5 Million in TSP converted to an annuity. That means you would have to save about 75k a year starting your first yr of service to yr 20 to end up with that balance. And saying the 401k "system" is going to collapse? sorry but thats not even a possibility, the baby boomers are in such a wide age range and have such diverse asset allocations that they will not have any impact on the stock market. Do you think they are all going to get together and say "we should all sell every equity we own and all switch to 100%bonds that are paying a historicly low 1.8%" doubtful. Even when fully retired most people still have a percentage of their portfolio in stocks/equity mutual funds to sustain long term withdrawls.

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    Re: Chief Cody spoke to a group of enlisted folks at MacDill today

    Quote Originally Posted by mikezulu1 View Post
    For those calling for a "401k" type system, we already have that its called the TSP. TSP is the exact same as a "401k" just with a different name, in fact its the lowest costing 401k program in the country by FAR. We just dont get an employer match, most people who work for a company that has a 401k dont receive a match either. We get a pension on top of it, if you are a 20 yr MSGT and retire you get a pension that is the equivilent of having about $1.5 Million in TSP converted to an annuity. That means you would have to save about 75k a year starting your first yr of service to yr 20 to end up with that balance. And saying the 401k "system" is going to collapse? sorry but thats not even a possibility, the baby boomers are in such a wide age range and have such diverse asset allocations that they will not have any impact on the stock market. Do you think they are all going to get together and say "we should all sell every equity we own and all switch to 100%bonds that are paying a historicly low 1.8%" doubtful. Even when fully retired most people still have a percentage of their portfolio in stocks/equity mutual funds to sustain long term withdrawls.
    TSP is nice in being able to tax-defer income, but I wish there was a self-directed option instead of having to select one of their defined funds. My self-directed Roth is consistently outperforming TSP.

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