View Poll Results: Do you obey the order to force Americans at gunpoint into concentration camps?

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  • Yes, I will obey the order.

    12 36.36%
  • No, I will refuse the order.

    16 48.48%
  • I Don't Know

    5 15.15%
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Thread: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s?

  1. #21
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    If this was december or January 1941 and I was ordered into that very same situation you bet your sweet ass I would, shit some of them cheering may not have made it to the camp.

    If another 9/11 happens and we are told to take to the streets to round up those who cheer our pain and death etc, give me the gun lets go do it. both legal and illegal aliens
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  2. #22
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt HULK View Post
    If this was december or January 1941 and I was ordered into that very same situation you bet your sweet ass I would, shit some of them cheering may not have made it to the camp.

    If another 9/11 happens and we are told to take to the streets to round up those who cheer our pain and death etc, give me the gun lets go do it. both legal and illegal aliens
    Sgt Hulk, interesting. We're talking about American citizens. Are you also saying that you would take the streets with your gun and "do it" to American citizens who are cheering our pain and death?
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  3. #23
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    I'm saying that if our domestic enemies became a threat to our way of life and the order was given.

    Its time to go to work.

    If pearl harbor happens and those people take to the streets to party and celebrate the fact that you, bru, and the rest of my brothers in arms are dying at the hands of thier countryman ( american citizen or not) yep round em up.

    If you tell me to go get the 80 yr old guy next door sitting on the porch shelling green beans. No I have no reason to personally or legally.

    there are far too many variables in this questions and too many what if';s can spin this
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  4. #24
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    In the context of the events of 1941 and early 1942 I'm sure I would have followed that order. Not saying that is the right choice but thinking from the perspective of a soldier and imagining the biases the average American Joe would have been operating under I think yes, I would have followed the order.
    The question is about what you would do now, given the full benefit of history. With everything you know now, if this exact same situation presented itself, would you obey or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    No one briefed those soldiers on the constitution before they were sent out to round those people up.
    Still they took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Not knowing it, and yet swearing to God you will support and defend it, is a pretty shoddy defense don't you think? If you're ordered to secure the ECP from imminent attack and asked if you can be counted on to do it, and you say, "I swear it - you can trust me!" and then later after the flight line is destroyed you throw up your shoulders and say, "I didn't know what the ECP was or where it was, and I didn't think to find out" - is that a good defense? Is that the defense you want to take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Fear, uncertainty, and our own propaganda played a big factor on the minds of those young men back in 1942.
    Again, the question is how you would have handled it given what you know now. You mentioned fear. Courage means doing the right thing when you are afraid. Courage does NOT exist when a person is not afraid. What I take from your answer is that if you are afraid to do right, then you will not do right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    I'd like to think that I wouldn't ignore the constitution or deprive a fellow American of their liberty.

    I'm just being honest when I say that I could be blinded by anger, fear or a string of events that could lead me into making the wrong choice.

    If you say that couldn't happen to you; well, I question how honest you are being with yourself.
    Everybody has a breaking point. Most people will do what they need to do to survive. That's not lost on me.

    But breaking simply because you need a job? Selling out your country and your oath before God, because you might face jail time? Violating your oath for a credit card payment?

    I find it interesting that we have heroes like Bud Day who endured years and years of torture and imprisonment, and who could have went home like some of the others who cooperated with the VC and came home to an Air Force promotion to full bird....and yet we have others who wouldn't refuse to violate the civil liberties of their neighbors while they know they are doing wrong, simply because they might be kicked out of the military, or at the very worst, put in jail.

    I appreciate the honesty.
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  5. #25
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    People back then didn't question authority like they do today.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    Sure, it would be different if we rolled in to the town off base and started rounding people up... no doubt there would be a lot of resistance. No doubt I'd have followed the order in 1942; today, who knows.
    Why do you not know? Why would you have followed the order in the 1942? Thanks for the honesty.
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  6. #26
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by raider8169 View Post
    With what I know how I would refuse it because it is well known you can refuse an unlawful order. If we are at war to the point where we were during WWII it might be different. Still while I voted no, situations could arise where I may have to.
    Obviously in the question posed, we would be at war to the point we were in WWII - that is the situation presented. So you voted no, but you say you might obey if we were at war at the point in the war we were in WWII (we were), so is your vote really a "I don't know?"

    What kind of situations could arise where you would obey the order to point your weapon at American citizen men, women, and children and force them into concentration camps without charge or trial?
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  7. #27
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by F4CrewChick View Post
    We do not have martial law. We have posse comitatus. We have a constitution we take an oath to defend. We do not have a dictator. We have free will. We have Article 90 of the UCMJ. This would clearly be an illegal order and as an officer (former) it would be my duty to bring such an order into question.

    Any questions?
    One question, would you refuse the order or not? You say you would bring the order into question, but does that mean you would refuse to obey it?
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  8. #28
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAirman View Post
    Not enough info for too biased of a question.
    How is a question asking you what you would do, biased?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAirman View Post
    All orders and responses are based on the law (as dictated by the Constitution) but neither the law nor the Constitution are so perfect and absolute that any one person, including myself, can say with absolute certainty that any particular law or order is lawful.
    You cannot say with absolute certainty that any law or order is lawful?

    So if you were given an order to duct tape a peaceful protestor breaking no laws to prevent them from speaking, then go and burn down their church, then go their home and confiscate their legally owned weapons, then live in their house during peacetime as a military soldier, and then hang that person for treason without them getting a trial or a jury of their peers......you wouldn't be able to say with absolute certainty that the order is unlawful?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAirman View Post
    I reserve the right to make a judgement at the time and will accept my fate if my decision and subsequent response is later determined to be unlawful by the US legal system.
    Why wait? Why not study now so you can make a better decision, being that you took an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and therefore by studying it now you will be in a better position in the future to do the lawful thing?
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

  9. #29
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by PickYourBattles View Post
    Why do you not know? Why would you have followed the order in the 1942? Thanks for the honesty.
    As weird as it may sound, I think most people wouldn't follow an order like that today versus 1942 because of the internet. Access to information which makes us smarter as a whole. Back then, everyone was aware of the war and what we had to do to win, but not a lot of extra information was available other than the news. Today if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can just google it and find an answer. Everyone knows that we are there because of terrorism but if you question the truth in the matter you can just google it.

    The Taliban used to be our friends? We never left after we helped them? They wanted us to leave? We supplied them with weapons? WE ARE DROPPING BOMBS AND MISSILES IN PAKISTAN?? I doubt you would find that on Fox News... The internet provides a lot of information (not just for porn).

    And that is just an example as to why I think that some (not all) military members would refuse to follow those orders regardless of the repercussions.

    Regardless of what people may SAY that offends someone or our country.. we have freedom of speech. And we cannot have a president who picks and chooses it.

    "As President of our country and commander in chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day. And I will always defend their right to do so."

    I don't think he can pick and choose when that applies. Don't tell other countries that we can say whatever we want, but turn around and tell us that we can't.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
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  10. #30
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    Re: Would you have forced Americans into concentration camps at gunpoint in the 1940s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamethon View Post
    As weird as it may sound, I think most people wouldn't follow an order like that today versus 1942 because of the internet. Access to information which makes us smarter as a whole. Back then, everyone was aware of the war and what we had to do to win, but not a lot of extra information was available other than the news. Today if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can just google it and find an answer. Everyone knows that we are there because of terrorism but if you question the truth in the matter you can just google it.

    The Taliban used to be our friends? We never left after we helped them? They wanted us to leave? We supplied them with weapons? WE ARE DROPPING BOMBS AND MISSILES IN PAKISTAN?? I doubt you would find that on Fox News... The internet provides a lot of information (not just for porn).

    And that is just an example as to why I think that some (not all) military members would refuse to follow those orders regardless of the repercussions.

    Regardless of what people may SAY that offends someone or our country.. we have freedom of speech. And we cannot have a president who picks and chooses it.

    "As President of our country and commander in chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day. And I will always defend their right to do so."

    I don't think he can pick and choose when that applies. Don't tell other countries that we can say whatever we want, but turn around and tell us that we can't.
    That does sound a bit weird given the responses in this thread.

    So would you have obeyed the order or not?
    COURAGE!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Well, you aren't going to like this answer either, but yes [I would follow an unlawful order to round up innocent Americans by force and throw them into concentration camps]. ...I probably would have obeyed the order for self preservation purposes.

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