Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 63

Thread: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

  1. #31
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    I think they dress uniform should have stayed greens, the new dress fatigue be multi-cam and return to black boots.

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,716
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    We do NOT need black boots. I know sgt majors get a hard-on about shining boots, but no - that's a waste of time. As for me, I've never had black boots, Marines or Army - there's no sense in trying to learn now.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Transient
    Posts
    193
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    We do NOT need black boots. I know sgt majors get a hard-on about shining boots, but no - that's a waste of time. As for me, I've never had black boots, Marines or Army - there's no sense in trying to learn now.
    Looked sharp, but stupid in functionality; you go to the field, beat the shit out of them, get them wet, then expected to have them all pretty when you're back in garrison. Same a pressing and starching uniforms. If I could have my time spent on polishing boots and pressing cammies back, I would be going on one helluva vacation. Not to mention if you weren't in the field, you better have your cammies and boots squared away again after noon chow.

    Shudder.....
    Disclaimer: All names, dates and locations have been changed in order to protect the guilty.

  4. #34
    Senior Member CORNELIUSSEON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bordentown, NJ
    Posts
    255
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    We do NOT need black boots. I know sgt majors get a hard-on about shining boots, but no - that's a waste of time. As for me, I've never had black boots, Marines or Army - there's no sense in trying to learn now.
    The changeover from Tanned (Black) boots to Suede boots started during Desert Storm in 1991. I was one of many who made the changeover at the first attempt, and still own my suede boots. The virtues of the changeover were as follows:

    1. Suede boots don't need the break-in period that Tanned boots do.
    2. Suede boots have a much longer utility period than Tanned boots (Mine are 21 Years old, and are still in perfect order).
    3. Tanned boots are harder to clean. Suede boots only need a stiff wire brush and water in order to be cleaned.
    4. Suede boots need no polishing, reducing the cost of maintenance.
    5. Suede boots are easier to pack in a Duffle Bag since they aren't stiff like Tanned boots are.
    6. Suede boots don't tire the legs during extended walking like Tanned boots do, since they aren't as stiff.

    As to the issue of garrison vs. field wear, we would own an extra pair of Tanned boots that were kept in Garrison to meet the inspection requirements. The need for that extra pair of boots ceased to exist with the changeover.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

  5. #35
    Senior Member MisterBen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Fighting for your freedoms!
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    lol creaminess. I agree with Joe. I came in the 80s and took pride in shining my boots but when I received my tan ones in 2005; they feel great like I am walking in sneakers. They are harder to clean but they still get clean. Currently, I am using the ADS mountain boots in Afghanistan and love these too.

    I do not want to return back to black boots. That will be the same BS that Corny will probably say about our current BATES high gloss shoes with the ASU. He probably still has his highly shined ones from the Vietnam War still in perfect order.

    Corny, I respect that you are retired but I am someone that is still serving from the 80s and you have to let go of the past comparisons. Those are apples vs oranges now. And guess what? With today's tan boots, they break in much faster than the black one so your comment number 1 is not correct for today. I will also add that your number 6 comment is wrong too.

  6. #36
    Senior Member CORNELIUSSEON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bordentown, NJ
    Posts
    255
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    If you go and read what I wrote, you will see that I LIKE the Suede boots, and immediately disposed of my Tanned (Black) boots. If I was as retro as you assert, I would have never changed from the original Wool Fatigues we received in 1967, but - in fact - I went through several different Fatigue uniforms, including the original Wool, the replacement Cotton, the light-weight Jungle Fatigues, the original BDU, and finally the "Chocolate Chip" Desert BDU. We wore three different Fatigue Caps until we arrived at the Patrol Cap you now wear. We started with full color Patches, and switched to Camouflaged Patches in the middle of the Vietnam War. We started with two Summer uniforms: the Summer Green ASU and the Short Sleeve Khaki ASU, not to mention the Winter Green ASU. We had two hats for wear with the ASU: The Service Cap you still have, and the Forage Cap we could only wear when Deployed outside CONUS. You guys Bitch about being treated as guinea pigs while the Army goes through the various uniform changes, well, WAKE UP!!!! We were doing the guinea pig thing when you were in diapers, and we groused about it as well, but we groused amongst ourselves, never with earshot of the Senior Grades, because they would show up at one Morning Formation in the new uniform - both Officers and NCOs - and we would be expected to show up the following morning dressed like them. There would be no discussion as to whether or not we liked the switch - that was the job for the Senior Grades to decide - but there were occasional requests for comment from the Senior Grades that was when we would speak up. None of this would ever make it to the Press like it does today, except that the Army Times would announce the decision when it became official.

    As to the stiffness of the boot, that means that the Seniors have already gone back one step because ours were like Glove Leather, and I'm looking at my pair as I write this. Incidentally, the crack about not wearing them since I retired, that isn't true. When I do things where they are a better choice than regular shoes, I wear them, and they fit like they were new, and are still supple, which the old Tanned (Black) boots would never be after this length of time. Finally, the first generation of Suede Boots were ALL "custom made", and purchased by their wearers, while the Army did its thing arranging a Contract for a "standard" suede boot. The result was a choice of wearing the "Issue" boot OR buying you own from several licensed manufacturers. Mine are a pair of the originals, which were manufactured and purchased in Saudi Arabia, and are modeled on the Black Leather boot we wore at the time, including the light plate the boot had between the Sole and the Upper to protect against being wounded if we stepped on buried stakes or other bobby traps. In other words, both boots were based on ground experience in Vietnam, and solved all of the problems we experienced with the World War Two era Black Boot (which was originally Brown when first designed) in the Vietnam environment.

    So, stop whining about how the Seniors are making you try new uniform items - you aren't doing anything we didn't do, and we didn't do anything the Korea and earlier generations haven't done since the Revolutionary days.

    Finally, I was reminded that the reason why we Retirees have been brought into the mix with the current generation of soldiers is precisely to make the point that there is continuity between the generations, and you still have much to learn from our experience - as we learned from the World War Two/Korea Generation.

    I just got back from a cruise where I met several Retirees, Veterans, and currently serving troops, and the Ship gave us a room where we could discuss things. One of the currently serving guys was an E-7 Recruiter, and the subject moved to this forum. The type of discussions and the mood of this forum was compared to the Poop Chute dialog when we were on duty, and it was decided that the difference is that you actually have a venue where you can whine to your heart's content, which is a good thing - because the rest of the troops can ignore you and continue with their service lives. In our day, the Seniors would take note of your whine, and judge it in terms of the mental health of the troops as a whole, but they didn't go so far as to make actual decisions based on the substance of the whine as it appears to be happening today. So be it. I came back from the cruise sure that the barbs and arrows I receive here aren't representative of the mood of the Army as a whole, or even on any Unit basis. It's just the same old group of malcontents who don't like that the Army isn't doing things "their" way, and feel that there is nothing to learn from how things were done before they were around.

    I will still be around - wherether or not you like it - and I will continue to have my say when I see fit. If you feel that I am wrong, that's fine, but don't expect me to see things your way just because you insist that I should.

    Nuff said.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Transient
    Posts
    193
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterBen View Post
    lol creaminess. I agree with Joe. I came in the 80s and took pride in shining my boots but when I received my tan ones in 2005; they feel great like I am walking in sneakers. They are harder to clean but they still get clean. Currently, I am using the ADS mountain boots in Afghanistan and love these too.

    I do not want to return back to black boots. That will be the same BS that Corny will probably say about our current BATES high gloss shoes with the ASU. He probably still has his highly shined ones from the Vietnam War still in perfect order.

    Corny, I respect that you are retired but I am someone that is still serving from the 80s and you have to let go of the past comparisons. Those are apples vs oranges now. And guess what? With today's tan boots, they break in much faster than the black one so your comment number 1 is not correct for today. I will also add that your number 6 comment is wrong too.
    You my friend, were just cornholed
    Disclaimer: All names, dates and locations have been changed in order to protect the guilty.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Transient
    Posts
    193
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    If you go and read what I wrote, you will see that I LIKE the Suede boots, and immediately disposed of my Tanned (Black) boots. If I was as retro as you assert, I would have never changed from the original Wool Fatigues we received in 1967, but - in fact - I went through several different Fatigue uniforms, including the original Wool, the replacement Cotton, the light-weight Jungle Fatigues, the original BDU, and finally the "Chocolate Chip" Desert BDU. We wore three different Fatigue Caps until we arrived at the Patrol Cap you now wear. We started with full color Patches, and switched to Camouflaged Patches in the middle of the Vietnam War. We started with two Summer uniforms: the Summer Green ASU and the Short Sleeve Khaki ASU, not to mention the Winter Green ASU. We had two hats for wear with the ASU: The Service Cap you still have, and the Forage Cap we could only wear when Deployed outside CONUS. You guys Bitch about being treated as guinea pigs while the Army goes through the various uniform changes, well, WAKE UP!!!! We were doing the guinea pig thing when you were in diapers, and we groused about it as well, but we groused amongst ourselves, never with earshot of the Senior Grades, because they would show up at one Morning Formation in the new uniform - both Officers and NCOs - and we would be expected to show up the following morning dressed like them. There would be no discussion as to whether or not we liked the switch - that was the job for the Senior Grades to decide - but there were occasional requests for comment from the Senior Grades that was when we would speak up. None of this would ever make it to the Press like it does today, except that the Army Times would announce the decision when it became official.

    As to the stiffness of the boot, that means that the Seniors have already gone back one step because ours were like Glove Leather, and I'm looking at my pair as I write this. Incidentally, the crack about not wearing them since I retired, that isn't true. When I do things where they are a better choice than regular shoes, I wear them, and they fit like they were new, and are still supple, which the old Tanned (Black) boots would never be after this length of time. Finally, the first generation of Suede Boots were ALL "custom made", and purchased by their wearers, while the Army did its thing arranging a Contract for a "standard" suede boot. The result was a choice of wearing the "Issue" boot OR buying you own from several licensed manufacturers. Mine are a pair of the originals, which were manufactured and purchased in Saudi Arabia, and are modeled on the Black Leather boot we wore at the time, including the light plate the boot had between the Sole and the Upper to protect against being wounded if we stepped on buried stakes or other bobby traps. In other words, both boots were based on ground experience in Vietnam, and solved all of the problems we experienced with the World War Two era Black Boot (which was originally Brown when first designed) in the Vietnam environment.

    So, stop whining about how the Seniors are making you try new uniform items - you aren't doing anything we didn't do, and we didn't do anything the Korea and earlier generations haven't done since the Revolutionary days.

    Finally, I was reminded that the reason why we Retirees have been brought into the mix with the current generation of soldiers is precisely to make the point that there is continuity between the generations, and you still have much to learn from our experience - as we learned from the World War Two/Korea Generation.

    I just got back from a cruise where I met several Retirees, Veterans, and currently serving troops, and the Ship gave us a room where we could discuss things. One of the currently serving guys was an E-7 Recruiter, and the subject moved to this forum. The type of discussions and the mood of this forum was compared to the Poop Chute dialog when we were on duty, and it was decided that the difference is that you actually have a venue where you can whine to your heart's content, which is a good thing - because the rest of the troops can ignore you and continue with their service lives. In our day, the Seniors would take note of your whine, and judge it in terms of the mental health of the troops as a whole, but they didn't go so far as to make actual decisions based on the substance of the whine as it appears to be happening today. So be it. I came back from the cruise sure that the barbs and arrows I receive here aren't representative of the mood of the Army as a whole, or even on any Unit basis. It's just the same old group of malcontents who don't like that the Army isn't doing things "their" way, and feel that there is nothing to learn from how things were done before they were around.


    I will still be around - wherether or not you like it - and I will continue to have my say when I see fit. If you feel that I am wrong, that's fine, but don't expect me to see things your way just because you insist that I should.

    Nuff said.
    Bet those guys you cornered on the cruise wish they didn't get suckered into that room!

    CorneliousSeon,

    It's not about the bitching, it's about effectiveness in a combat environment; never have we had better input on the impact of gear choices in a combat environment than currently exists. We have been at war for over 11 years, our guys know what is worthless shit (Marine Corps pack choices for the first 5 years of the wars) and what works great.

    I say the uniform and gear choices should be decided by a panel of combat tested service members from a rifleman on up.
    Disclaimer: All names, dates and locations have been changed in order to protect the guilty.

  9. #39
    Senior Member MisterBen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Fighting for your freedoms!
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC0341 View Post
    You my friend, were just cornholed
    ooh it hurts; it hurts!!

    But seriously, I did enjoy his thesis. Retirement is great!

    But I do agree about the whine. Problem is that the brass tries to fix the wrong crap or makes things worse when trying to fix it. It is like a wife that screams. We think that we are listening but we actually are not.

  10. #40
    Senior Member CORNELIUSSEON's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bordentown, NJ
    Posts
    255
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Army getting rid of the ASU already?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC0341 View Post
    Bet those guys you cornered on the cruise wish they didn't get suckered into that room!

    CorneliousSeon,

    It's not about the bitching, it's about effectiveness in a combat environment; never have we had better input on the impact of gear choices in a combat environment than currently exists. We have been at war for over 11 years, our guys know what is worthless shit (Marine Corps pack choices for the first 5 years of the wars) and what works great.

    I say the uniform and gear choices should be decided by a panel of combat tested service members from a rifleman on up.
    The oldest guy in the room was in his 80s, and served in World War Two. Of course, we deferred to his seniority.

    As to gear changes, I agree with you only in that you had 11 years to solve problems. The current series of wars is the first such series in American history where more than one generation went into combat against the same enemy, and the first time when it was possible to fix the kind of problems while still in combat. Remember, I spanned the period from Vietnam (1967) through Desert Storm (1990-91), and so the troops I served with in Desert Storm had experienced the equipment in service since Vietnam, and so was able to likewise tell those who were much younger than us what equipment was shitty, and what worked just fine. For example, we were the generation that transitioned from Jeeps to HumVees, and we told those that would listen that they had wasted their money because we saw that the HumVees had the same vulnerabilities that the Jeeps had, and they were much easier to hit while in motion than the Jeeps they replaced simply because they were larger than the Jeeps. So, our Truckmasters were able to advise the Regulars we had to deal with that if a HumVee got hit, don’t bother trying to repair it, just Red X it, and ship it back for scrap. As for Packs, we were the first generation that actually was issued a full sized pack (Desert Storm). For most of our existence, we were issued the Fanny Pack, and weren’t allowed to carry anything that couldn’t be slung across our body, or fit in the Fanny Pack. Why? Because the Korean War Generation was equipped that way, and they were still evaluating new equipment that would show up in time for Desert Storm. The Vietnam era equipment – by the way – was always considered as temporary until peace arrived, and it was decided which of those items to retain and which to do away with.

    If they do with this upcoming peace what they did after Vietnam, then it will be the Peacetime Generation that will fix the current problems, so if you stay in long enough to become part of that group, then you will see the changes made, and – trust me – there still are things that need fixing. The HumVee needs to be scrapped altogether. The M-16 and its competitors need to be evaluated for a final choice. Oh, and just whose idea was it that you carry your rifle with the muzzle down? I will admit that you have us to blame for the top-mounted strap, but we still carried the rifle with the muzzle elevated. Why? Safety.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

Similar Threads

  1. Unpatrioticness of sports Stars
    By garhkal in forum In the News
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 02-11-2019, 11:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •