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Thread: Relief for Cause NCOER

  1. #11
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    Re: Relief for Cause NCOER

    Lose the weight, or get out. WTF? In 24 years, I NEVER went over the "weight limit". I have compressed disks in my back, knees nearly shot from 78 jumps, and nerve damage in my leg. I can meet weight now, by the way. And the tape? C'mon man, really? If you have to worry about the tape, you're probably on the way out, anyway.

    The sergeant major isn't the bad guy; get within the regs. Easy day, right?

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    Re: Relief for Cause NCOER

    A couple of pointers for you.
    1. The CSM should be involved because the AWCP is the commander's program and he is part of the command team. An AWCP NCO placed on an additional duties appointment letter by a company commander is fine, but that battalion or squadron will have the primary AWCP NCO who supervises and conducts inspections of the units managers. Yes it is the Co CDRs program, at his level, but like all things there is an echelon of command.

    2. A soldier who makes satisfactory progress needs to be closely supervised throughout the process because several inconsistencies may occur at the soldier and leader level. First the primary location that fat is initially lost is in the neck, especially when soldiers fast before a test. The fat in waist and abdomen is stored and is very difficult to lose. So if the soldiers fasts and loses a .5" or an inch that's great unless he never really changed his eating habits and gets caught in a surprise tape. Next if the NCO who conducts the tape is not properly trained and validated he/she could make some very bad career altering mistakes. A minor difference of a .5" in the neck or abdomen either way could be +/- 1%.

    3. This NCO could have larger issues to worry about long term other than a RFC. Read the AR on repeat offenders, especially when it occurs within a certain time gait. If you haven't done so already, you will have to initiate a chapter on this NCO. Regardless if you would recommend one or not, you are now required to start the packet IF this NCO fails to get of the program within 6 months of his second infraction.

    4. As far as a RFC, this may be a little over zealous probably would not float in most units. Sounds like the CSM is confused about the AWCP in general. It exists as a rehabilitative tool for the commander not as something to ID and eliminate soldiers who may have physiological issues that require assistance. I understand this NCO is a leader, but he must be given the chance to recover.

    5. This brings me to my final point, I always kept soldiers on the program an extra month or two if they were at their threshold or just below. This was my way of helping the soldiers avoid grievous errors that may put them back on the program and make them subject to a chapter. Again that error could have been mathematical or poor dietary standards, either way its part of being a concerned leader and knowing your soldiers.

  3. #13
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    Re: Relief for Cause NCOER

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo77 View Post
    Lose the weight, or get out. WTF? In 24 years, I NEVER went over the "weight limit". I have compressed disks in my back, knees nearly shot from 78 jumps, and nerve damage in my leg. I can meet weight now, by the way. And the tape? C'mon man, really? If you have to worry about the tape, you're probably on the way out, anyway.

    The sergeant major isn't the bad guy; get within the regs. Easy day, right?
    Whats funny is that I have seen guys under their weight limit, but would fail a tape. On the other end of the spectrum, I have seen guys over weight but with very low body fat percentages.

    You can have 3 different people taping and come up with 6 different measurements.
    The state tends to expand in proportion to its means of existence and to live beyond its means, and these are, in the last analysis, nothing but the substance of the people. Woe to the people that cannot limit the sphere of action of the state! Freedom, private enterprise, wealth, happiness, independence, personal dignity, all vanish. - Frederic Bastiat

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    Re: Relief for Cause NCOER

    Quote Originally Posted by 106PADDOCK View Post
    What's your CO's take on this? The Weight Control is a UNIT level activity under the CO supervision. Far too many CSM think THEY are some sort of "field grade NCO"! The CSM isn't in you CoC he is an ADVISOR to the BN/BDE/Div CDR. The writing of ANY NCOER is in the hands of you RATER not the CSM. If the CSM has it in his head to conduct these free lance weigh in/tape test a nice letter to the Higher-Higher HQ IG and you Congressmen will bring him back to the reality of his role . Just my $.02 from a guy who was sick of "Imperial SGM"!
    Awesome! Couldn't agree more - "Field Grade NCO" "Imperial SGM" So many of those guys just collecting a paycheck and being a pain in everyone's a**.

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