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Thread: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

  1. #101
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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by SENDBILLMONEY View Post
    The governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, stated that he plans to issue an executive order half-staffing the colors at government buildings on the day of Whitney Houston's funeral.

    I don't live in NJ, but I have a rather large problem with this. Am I on my own here?
    I know i do, as it should be reserved for true patriots and heads of state.. doing it for musicians and the like is imo wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyoldawg View Post
    Maybe Black History Month has something to do with Christie's decision, Ya think?
    Very likely..

    Quote Originally Posted by jarjar View Post
    Agreed.

    If a celebrity dies the news is broadcast throughout the world. If a Marine dies, he/she gets a 1/2 inch blurb in the local paper. Tragic.
    it does seem wrong that we so celebrate celebs even in death, but other than maybe a min or so on headline news, we don't for our fallen.

  2. #102
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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston



    When you break it down she really didn't do anything for music. Some guy I never heard of apparently did more for music than she did. I've been talking to my brother (Majoring in music/sound production) about this and it is a pretty big topic at his school. Not big because of who she is but a big topic because she really did not give anything to the music industry and very few "artists" do these days. They are pre-packaged, molded, money makers.

    In her rawest form as an "artist" she was just someone with a good voice and some execs wanted to make money off her. Personally I think she would have hit the cocaine highway if she never ran into fame.

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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettGTO View Post


    When you break it down she really didn't do anything for music. Some guy I never heard of apparently did more for music than she did. I've been talking to my brother (Majoring in music/sound production) about this and it is a pretty big topic at his school. Not big because of who she is but a big topic because she really did not give anything to the music industry and very few "artists" do these days. They are pre-packaged, molded, money makers.

    In her rawest form as an "artist" she was just someone with a good voice and some execs wanted to make money off her. Personally I think she would have hit the cocaine highway if she never ran into fame.
    Obviously the person who made that is a heavy metal fan and not one of the pop/R&B genre. That comparison doesn't even make sense. One is an American artist who was mainstream, sold millions of albums, won dozens of awards for her craft and died the night before one of the biggest music award shows of the year. The other was a heavy metal artist from Sweden, who's work never went main stream. Maybe he influenced others, but those bullet points don't really spell it out who he influenced.

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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    Yes, here are three sources of reference:

    1. The Constitution

    2. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution

    3. The Flag Code

    There is absolutely nothing to prevent a state governor from ordering a flag lowered for whatever reason he or she chooses.
    Go back and re-read the flag code. The governor can do whatever he or she wishes with his/her own flag. When he/she mandates that it be lowered on government buildings, the Flag Code applies. Again, waiting for something-ANYTHING that says it doesn't...cause the Flag Code says it does and individual liberties do not apply to Federal or State GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS (to include flagpoles).

    Quote Originally Posted by SENDBILLMONEY View Post
    Had I known of that, I'd have raised a timely objection to that one too.

    I'm not saying the governor lacks the legal authority to do this. For me, the problem is that the honor is usually reserved for those who have rendered some form of federal, state or local service (besides court-ordered service ... I'm lookin' at you, Lindsay Lohan!). Presidents, governors, mayors, other elected officials, senior appointed civilian officials, military personnel, veterans, and police/fire/ambulance personnel are examples of who I'm thinking about.

    This has nothing to do with Whitney Houston as a human being or as an entertainer. We're all flawed, we're all human, and we all have baggage of one sort or another. However distinguished her career may have been, it wasn't in the fields of endeavor that one associates with this honor.

    If the governor wants to split the difference and lower New Jersey's flag in salute one of its own, that's between him and New Jersey residents. When he brings the national colors into it, his decision is fair game for a collective, national "what the hell are you thinking, Governor?"
    I am. The Flag Code applies when the governor makes a decree impacting the status of the flag on government buildings. It doesn't have ANY impact on individuals lowering the flag for whatever reason they see fit. The Gov can lower every flag he wants to but doesn't have the authority to dictate that others do so for individuals not specified in the Flag Code. I really could give two shits less but contrary to what others would have you believe, the Flag Code is pretty clear and DOES apply in this case. It has no teeth but people should be able to do the right thing without being forced to do so.
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  5. #105
    Tak
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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston


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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    One thing that gets me is how many people believe flying the flag at half-staff is an honor that should only be afforded to military members who died in service to their country. The Flag Code, and guidelines for when to fly at half-staff, have been part of US Law since 1942 but the provision that authorizes the flag to fly at half-staff for members of the Armed Forces has only been around since 2007 (Army Specialist Joseph P. Micks Federal Flag Code Amendment Act of 2007).

    My belief is that, at any one time, our national flag is either at full-staff or half-staff - NATIONWIDE. It is a national symbol that transcends local and state boundaries. At any one time, neither New Jersey, California, or any other state should have our NATIONAL flag at half-staff while it is at full-staff elsewhere. Either our entire nation is in mourning or it is not. Now this does mean that it will probably never be at half-staff for the death of a military member but I'm okay with that.

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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAirman View Post
    My belief is that, at any one time, our national flag is either at full-staff or half-staff - NATIONWIDE. It is a national symbol that transcends local and state boundaries. At any one time, neither New Jersey, California, or any other state should have our NATIONAL flag at half-staff while it is at full-staff elsewhere. Either our entire nation is in mourning or it is not. Now this does mean that it will probably never be at half-staff for the death of a military member but I'm okay with that.
    You may be right but you could never have it all or none without a 10th Amendment challenge. That is why the Flag Code as it presently stands only applies to Government buildings/flagpoles. Some yahoo can fly thier flag upsidedown at half staff if they so choose as a mode of expression...

    Though there are some here that would allege that the 10th Amendment somehow applies to government buildings/flagpoles too...and that states don't have governments....
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    You may be right but you could never have it all or none without a 10th Amendment challenge. That is why the Flag Code as it presently stands only applies to Government buildings/flagpoles. Some yahoo can fly thier flag upsidedown at half staff if they so choose as a mode of expression...

    Though there are some here that would allege that the 10th Amendment somehow applies to government buildings/flagpoles too...and that states don't have governments....
    In a manner of speaking the Flag Code does apply outside the federal government - just that there are no enforcement provisions so, as you say, some yahoo can fly it upside down at half staff and there is nothing that can be done. But we are talking about other government agencies, not private yahoos. Maybe nothing can be done if a state or local government chooses to ignore the Flag Code - but when that happens, the public, federal government, POTUS, media, whoever should question such actions and ask why they chose to use the national flag as their method of respect versus their own local flag.

    Sec. 5. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition

    The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of merica is established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with egulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States.


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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAirman View Post
    In a manner of speaking the Flag Code does apply outside the federal government - just that there are no enforcement provisions so, as you say, some yahoo can fly it upside down at half staff and there is nothing that can be done. But we are talking about other government agencies, not private yahoos. Maybe nothing can be done if a state or local government chooses to ignore the Flag Code - but when that happens, the public, federal government, POTUS, media, whoever should question such actions and ask why they chose to use the national flag as their method of respect versus their own local flag.

    Sec. 5. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition

    The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of merica is established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with egulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States.

    I never said it only applied to the Federal Gov... That was someone else... As written it applies to all government buildings and limits who the President and Governors can lower the flag for at said government buildings. It was SOMEONE else (name kinda like Bobby Orr but that isn't quite right...) that said individual liberties apply to government buildings, states don't have governments, and that the Flag Code didn't apply to governors...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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    Re: Half-staffing the flag for Whitney Houston

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    I never said it only applied to the Federal Gov... That was someone else... As written it applies to all government buildings and limits who the President and Governors can lower the flag for at said government buildings. It was SOMEONE else (name kinda like Bobby Orr but that isn't quite right...) that said individual liberties apply to government buildings, states don't have governments, and that the Flag Code didn't apply to governors...
    Sorry. My mistake.

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