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Thread: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

  1. #111
    Member cloudFFVII's Avatar
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    I only had to take 1 math course to finish my CCAF, after all my job credits and CLEPing English and Speech, and passing the DANTES on Sociology (I read 1/2 of a book, seriously) and History of the Civil War (something that is a big interest of mine).

    I could see someone who is a poor test-taker having trouble with that approach but look, it really isn't that tough to complete the CCAF. Course 14, that just takes about 2 months of concentrated effort to secure your options from MSgt on.

    I've always tried to keep the mantra "Don't close any doors" in the forefront of my mind. As the one individual posted, I'm not certain I would be a good SMSgt either. But I DO know I am growing into being a MSgt and I think this role will suit me greatly. Money is not everything: Preparing those who are going to be the TSgt's and MSgt's of the future IS my job. And that's going to determine, in my small neck of the AF, if the mission succeeds or fails. Still...if God wants me to be a SMSgt he will let me know when and if I reach that point. If I don't, I'm 100% content to take my retirement and disability, go do a 9 to 5 job, get paid close to the same I do now, and enjoy a life of comfort and far less stress.
    "It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.”-Robert E. Lee

  2. #112
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    To me it is not about the money, never has been for me. I would make a terrible SMSgt. I am not suited for it. I need to be with the people, not behind a desk and even now I'm more separated than I'd like to be for what I feel I bring to the table. That is where I make my difference. If handed E-8 today I would kindly say thanks but turn down the stripe, leave me where I know I can make the most difference. There are more important things in life than an extra 900 a month...

    What is so wrong with just having kick ass MSgt's? Why MUST we HAVE to want the next stripe? For me there is no dangling carrot out there, no incentive. I know where I do my best work and I have found that sweet spot. The rest who aspire to achieve the next position, good on you. Go for it. I will gladly applaude when you make that next rank and will follow your directions, just don't give me grief that I don't want what you want.
    I see your stance and dont disregard it. However, I have found people with your demeanor usually make the best SMSgts. They tend to stay more engaged with the force and become a huge well needed shit filter from the top. Dont sell yourself short with "I would make a terrible SMSgt". My main point throughout this forum only one person (CloudFFVII) has said...dont ever burn any bridges...you never know when or if you will ever need it. With these 2 things being so simple and easy to do (never said they are the end all be all important things IMHO...just said easy), why burn this bridge....hell...if you have to burn one...make it a big one, not the piddly simple things. I had a 22 1/2 year Kick Ass MSgt come to me about a year ago who had the same demeanor as you and ask how he could turn things around to be promoted. When I asked why the change...the story was devastating. It was an unforseen huge family medical problem that had ripped through his family. Now he needed the AF more for stability and medical care. He had been the "fuck the CCAF/Course 14 guy, I am happy with where I am. Now, unforseen circumstances had caused him to rethink it....but way too late. He burned the simple bridges early.

    Now, if you kick ass MSgts want to have the chance change the ways of the blue kool aid drinking crowd you can't to it from the middle...you have to do it from a topside position. Other than that...all you can do from the middle is bitch about it.

  3. #113
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Aitrus View Post
    If your entire leadership knowledge comes from 2618, then you need to take a smaller dose of kool-aid. AFIs don't hold all the answers. How does a CCAF assist our members in "transitioning from being technical experts"? It doesn't. Does one magically get to be a "leader of operational competence" by completing Course 14? Of course not. Those are assumptions that don't fit with the way the world really works, yet Big Blue seems content to just let that sentiment flow. Why? Because that kind of box checking is what got them to the top. And just look at what those "leaders" are doing to the Force. Do we really want to encourage that kind of thinking?
    You are the one that said "Our enlisted force's job is to fight war and be technical experts in our fields" I merely pointed out the falacy of the latter half of that statement. Our enlisted force's job is to be technical experts in our field...to a certain point. We pay SSgt's and TSgts to do that job. While as a SNCO you must maintain technical expertise...not your main focus anymore. If I or my boss needed that indepth of an explanation...I let the SSgt/TSgt do that. Way less confusing than me explaining it. I never said that CCAF and Course 14 will make you a better leader. You ASSUMED that all on your own. Remember, if you want to change leadership...you have to become leadership...again...other than that...you are just bitching

  4. #114
    Tak
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    He's a wanker.

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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    So, what might this little piece of information tell us about someone who hasn't gotten one in 20 years?
    Not a damn thing. I got my CCAF AFTER I made SMSgt at 22 years. Smoke that!

    Make sure to berate me though since you've got it all figured out.

  6. #116
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    We are enlisted...if we needed degrees, make us officers and pay us accordingly.
    To make us need degrees without pay is crazy.
    This trumps all other arguments. Degrees are arbitrary for the enlisted force. Get one for after AF stuff if you want to, but they are not necessary for any enlisted to do their job.

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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    This is my favorite quote/response from those in your corner.

    I am a self imposed non-promotable. I haven't done the things needed to promote myself and I also haven't had a bad night of sleep. The personnel that have worked with/for me have all gone on to do good things with their careers. I actively promote education and PME and all the other things required from good supervisors and mentors. They can learn from my choice of limiting my professional progression and NOT be like me, get their 14 done to fill the block and finish their CCAF. 3 of my last 4 eligible TSgt's have already completed it with me riding their asses. I have drug my Airmen over the ed center and had them sign up for classes. I get how nice a CCAF looks in the eyes of those drunk on the kool-aid. So I do it for those I am leaving behind.

    I know my time in the AF is soon to end and I also know how important (typed with a smirk on my face) course 14/CCAF is to my Airmen's career progression so I actively promote it/expect it although I don't have it done myself. Am I a horrible mentor and leader of my personnel? Ask them... I'd bet my retirement that not a one says "yes". Hell, all of my guys from my last unit are hitting me up to come back and pissed that I left (had to, end of controlled tour).

    So for every one of "you" that doesn't see me or my kind as an asset to the AF and are no longer useful I will politely tell you and those like you to piss off. I don't care what you think of me but I do care that my folks are taken care of and are being set up for their futures. To me that is all that matters.
    Well fucking said!

  8. #118
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    I surely hope you are joking, not for the 12 month requirement, about 65% of your SNCOs not having required qualifications for promotion. I would not bother trying to get your CCAF or your Course 14 done; cannot see any room for folks who do things last minute and only when forced.

  9. #119
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Move along, nothing here but the real AF and standards......

  10. #120
    FLAPS
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    Re: No course 14, no CCAF = Forced retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by SamAdams View Post
    This trumps all other arguments. Degrees are arbitrary for the enlisted force. Get one for after AF stuff if you want to, but they are not necessary for any enlisted to do their job.
    Fair enough. Then you don't have a problem eliminating enlisted TA altogether, right?

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