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Thread: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

  1. #11
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERFX1024 View Post
    Man you soldiers cry like little babies once actual rules come to implement dress and uniform standards. The Marine Corps has already had most of these for over a decade, and started a couple of the others in the last 4 years (ie sleeve tattoos). I am on KAF right now and there are so many nasty soldiers that just feel they can do whatever the hell they want and no one will say anything. It is sickening.
    Wow, really? Not all of us are crying about this. It needs to be done.

    I got this same email yesterday and agree with most of the changes. I do think some of it is over the top, but hey, roll with the punches and drive on. The Army needs some big changes. Soldiers have gotten soft and need to be brought back to reality.

  2. #12
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    As the originator of this thread, let me clarify that I agree with MOST of the changes. Here's where I disagree:

    Sideburns: Top of the ear...really? Then it's not a sideburn, is it? Just say no sideburns. I will concede that there are some guys who try to get pretty stylish with their stuff, but those are the exception, not the rule. If the current policy was enforced, they wouldn't be doing it now and this change wouldn't be needed.

    Civilian clothes: What I didn't state in my original post but heard yesterday from somebody at Fort Bliss who stated her unit was briefed on the changes was that males would have to wear button-down shirts and their pants (I'm assuming slacks now instead of jeans) would have to have belts. Seriously? Are we trying to dictate every facet of a Soldier's life? Let's get real. She said they even briefed that there will be courtesy patrols going around looking for violations. Apparently at the same time we're cutting troops, we're going to waste the time of the troops we don't cut by putting them on courtesy patrol at the PX and other places. What a waste of manpower, time, and resources.

    Clean shaven on and off duty: Oh, I gotta shave now on weekends and when I'm on leave? Yeah, try to enforce that with me. That's stupid.

    The rest of them, I can live with for the most part.

    Now, to those saying "back in the day, it was like this...", I got it. But times have changed. "Back in the day," you also didn't have a lot of the things you have now. Do you really want to justify these changes by saying "that's how it used to be"? Because if you do, then recall back then you didn't have computers, cell phones, and a lot of the other things that give you the quality of life you have now. Just because some rule used to exist doesn't mean it was good, does it? I mean, slavery used to be legal "back in the day," and I don't think you hear anybody calling for a return to those times. Yeah, that example is pretty over the top, but if you're going to justify changes by saying "that's how it used to be," then I can play that game too.

    There is a fine line between what makes sense and what is just ludicrous. Some of these proposed changes do NOT make sense.

    By the way, while I'm not as old as some who post here, I have over 2 decades of active duty and am still serving, so I'm not some FNG just sounding off here. And don't tell me to retire if I don't like it. If you just lie down and take everything that is forced upon you without speaking up and trying to make people think rationally about what they're doing, that's your thing. I won't do that.

  3. #13
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Wow it's things like this that make me glad I got out. I would have to say the biggest rule change I have an issue with is the tattoo policy it's almost the same as it was pre 2005-2006 except that it was the neck line on the class A shirt. So basically they changed the rules because they needed more troops and now that theres a draw down they want to change it back I think they need to grandfather everyone who came in during the wars back to whatever the tattoo policy was when they entered the service.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadencernr View Post
    Wow, really? Not all of us are crying about this. It needs to be done.

    I got this same email yesterday and agree with most of the changes. I do think some of it is over the top, but hey, roll with the punches and drive on. The Army needs some big changes. Soldiers have gotten soft and need to be brought back to reality.
    I'm not disareeing with the SMA (although the sideburns made me chuckle); but I'll disagree with the "soft" comment. What you actually meant to say is that Soldiers in garrison have become complacent on uniform standards because their leaders mistakenly believed that they might relax on the pressure.
    Oh, what pressure? How about 10yrs of combat? How about those same Soldiers, who were recovering from their latest TIC or IED decided to take off their cover, open up their blouse to cool off for a bit? How about the guys who were scraping off parts of their buddy off their trousers, boots and ACH?
    Yep, we need to get back into the garrison environment and push back to some 670-1'isms. Give it some time. We're in no rush. We just want to wipe the blood, sweat, tears and gore off our face and chill just a 'sec ... 'cuz we're hard like that ... or, dang, we cried a bit, maybe we are soft. My bad.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    A lot of these rules are already in place and have been for some time. Same thing is happening today that happened in the 90's. They are downsizing. Some of the bad will be kicked out, and a lot of the good will just ETS. What will be left are mostly mediocre soldiers who i wouldn't buy a used car from.

    But whatever, I am going to drive on, stay in my lane, and take care of my soldiers by leading by example and setting them up for success not only in the Army but in their every day lives.

    Leadership has lost sight of what the Army is all about. Professionalism is but an arbitrary word these days. Political correctness has infested us from top down.

    The only way you'll toughen soldiers up is by breaking them down in Basic and building them back up before they reach their line unit. Something that doesn't happen anymore.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by ImpliedConsent View Post
    I'm not disareeing with the SMA (although the sideburns made me chuckle); but I'll disagree with the "soft" comment. What you actually meant to say is that Soldiers in garrison have become complacent on uniform standards because their leaders mistakenly believed that they might relax on the pressure.
    Oh, what pressure? How about 10yrs of combat? How about those same Soldiers, who were recovering from their latest TIC or IED decided to take off their cover, open up their blouse to cool off for a bit? How about the guys who were scraping off parts of their buddy off their trousers, boots and ACH?
    Yep, we need to get back into the garrison environment and push back to some 670-1'isms. Give it some time. We're in no rush. We just want to wipe the blood, sweat, tears and gore off our face and chill just a 'sec ... 'cuz we're hard like that ... or, dang, we cried a bit, maybe we are soft. My bad.
    OK, let me clarify.....SOME soldiers have gotten soft. You specifically, maybe not. I see things that blow my mind some days. I am more referring to the soldier I see walking around off duty with spacers in his ears and a fauxhawk. AIT students who push the limits. Regs are not enforced these days. Basic and AIT are the cause of this. I am a SFC with 12 years in and see some serious changes in soldiers. Have you been to war and seen some jacked up stuff? Hell yes, BUT you are still a soldier and standards need to be maintained.

    If I offended you, sorry. If the shoe fits, wear it, if not, then don't pay attention to my post.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    A lot of these rules are already in place and have been for some time. Same thing is happening today that happened in the 90's. They are downsizing. Some of the bad will be kicked out, and a lot of the good will just ETS. What will be left are mostly mediocre soldiers who i wouldn't buy a used car from.

    But whatever, I am going to drive on, stay in my lane, and take care of my soldiers by leading by example and setting them up for success not only in the Army but in their every day lives.

    Leadership has lost sight of what the Army is all about. Professionalism is but an arbitrary word these days. Political correctness has infested us from top down.

    The only way you'll toughen soldiers up is by breaking them down in Basic and building them back up before they reach their line unit. Something that doesn't happen anymore.

    And this is exactly what is happening. It is a cycle after every war.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Same thing is happening today that happened in the 90's. They are downsizing. Some of the bad will be kicked out, and a lot of the good will just ETS. What will be left are mostly mediocre soldiers who i wouldn't buy a used car from.
    This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Just like in the 90s, we'll be left with a bunch of senior leaders who look pretty in Class A's, but when the next conflict happens...when it comes time to send men into harm's way...those senior leaders will be calling branch waving their perfect NCOERS and trying to hide out at the School House. Those guys who cut their teeth in the Army by kicking down doors over 4-6 Iraq/Afghanistan deployments? They'll be long gone.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by former31B View Post
    This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Just like in the 90s, we'll be left with a bunch of senior leaders who look pretty in Class A's, but when the next conflict happens...when it comes time to send men into harm's way...those senior leaders will be calling branch waving their perfect NCOERS and trying to hide out at the School House. Those guys who cut their teeth in the Army by kicking down doors over 4-6 Iraq/Afghanistan deployments? They'll be long gone.
    Cadencernr naa, ain't offended bro. I've seen this coming for some time now and it's kinda expected and will be supported. I'm more in the line of 31b above. Bullets start flying and they start runnin'. Those are the same exact guys who push for these changes "now" because "they" look like dirt bags.

    I'm so way over how soon senior leaders forget.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    A lot of these rules are already in place and have been for some time. Same thing is happening today that happened in the 90's. They are downsizing. Some of the bad will be kicked out, and a lot of the good will just ETS. What will be left are mostly mediocre soldiers who i wouldn't buy a used car from.

    But whatever, I am going to drive on, stay in my lane, and take care of my soldiers by leading by example and setting them up for success not only in the Army but in their every day lives.

    Leadership has lost sight of what the Army is all about. Professionalism is but an arbitrary word these days. Political correctness has infested us from top down.

    The only way you'll toughen soldiers up is by breaking them down in Basic and building them back up before they reach their line unit. Something that doesn't happen anymore.
    Yes, alot of these rules have been in place. But now a days there are ALOT of NCO's who are scared to make correections to a soldier. Due to being to PC orientated. I was a Marine, but now I work with all Army retired soldiers, on a Army base. It is crazy what you see Soldiers try and get away with. It's not even the hardchargers that are going out on patrols, it is the Fobbits that are here on the FOB the whole time.

    This happened with the Marine Corps too, when they "Generals" wanted all the "Undesireables" out of the Marines. It didn't matter that they were the best at what they did, or how many deployments they went on. It only mattered how you looked in uniform. You would see stand up, hard charging awesome Marines that can't do a B billet due to tattoos. So basically that Marine got condemned and forced out bc he can't be promoted.

    It's straight up bs

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