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Thread: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

  1. #121
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by former31B View Post
    This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Just like in the 90s, we'll be left with a bunch of senior leaders who look pretty in Class A's, but when the next conflict happens...when it comes time to send men into harm's way...those senior leaders will be calling branch waving their perfect NCOERS and trying to hide out at the School House. Those guys who cut their teeth in the Army by kicking down doors over 4-6 Iraq/Afghanistan deployments? They'll be long gone.
    Amen brother! I just had a conversation the other day specifically about how the best officers get out at Captain because they can't handle the bullshit anymore. The petty admin non-prior enlisted shitbags are the ones that stay in and eventually become the field grade and general officers which screws everyone. I can't recall how many times I've been in the room, surrounded by Majors, light Colonels, and above and have just been in awe at the stupidity. It's good for them they decided to stay in because they couldn't do well with anything else.

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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    In the first place, Drill Sergeants were only in charge of the Infantry AIT. For all of the other Career Management Fields, they would have been like fish out of water since NCOs with the MOS's being trained were what were needed.

    Next of all, the lowering of the standards – while lamentable for some reasons – actually returned the Army to the status it held for much of the 230+ Years of its existence. It has only been in recent years that the Army has felt that it was too good for “Snuffy Smith”, and you have experienced just why the Army has to lower its standards whenever we go to war: It is impossible to otherwise get enough people who have the high class standards that match those desired by the Army to Volunteer to fill the ranks. Trust me, this argument burned across the length and breadth of the Army prior to the lowering of standards at the start of the WOT, and lots of people lamented “the end of the Army as they knew it”. Don’t forget: “Up Or Out” only came in at the end of the Vietnam War, and that required a long drawn out verbal storm just for that one change.

    Finally, it is only in the Combat Arms that MOS Training is a constant program in Garrison, taking up most of the space on the Training Schedule. For the other CMFs, the norm has been the kind of training that is best done by Power Point or Lecture. I should know, since I had to prepare a whole slew of Lesson Plans for NBC Training, and the classes that involve the Protective mask, the MOPP Suit, the Atropene Surrette, and NBC Decontamination, were the only ones where I needed to take the troops out to the NBC Range, and that was once a year in Peacetime. Otherwise, the training was in Classrooms or Bleachers, and for the Regular Army, that required Training Schedule space only one day per Month, with the Troops scattered the rest of the time with the Garrison chores. And incidentally, don’t feel that you are part of the first generation to suffer the boredom of Garrison Life. Those of us who came before you went through it too, and always jumped at the chance to deploy somewhere to do anything necessary.

    Brother, Drill Sergeants were definitely in charge of my 68W Combat Medic School in '06 @ Fort Sam Houston, TX.

  3. #123
    Senior Member MisterBen's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jh762 View Post
    Brother, Drill Sergeants were definitely in charge of my 68W Combat Medic School in '06 @ Fort Sam Houston, TX.
    +1. In addition to many combat arms MOS OSUT locations; Drill Sergeants stay with you throughout BCT and AIT.

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    Junior Member MAquino's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Apologies for not reading through all the previous pages of this thread. Anyway it's always fun, if not necessarily productive, to vent on the subject of Army uniforms, so here's my 2¢-worth:

    (1) By the mid-1970s the Army had finally gotten fatigues just right: nice OD color, fabric, weight, permanent press, comfortable, attractive, tough, and easily maintainable. Sew-on subdued insignia. Baseball cap/bright insignia. Shirt inside trousers.

    Then someone with Vietnam nostalgia came along with the BDU: hot, tailored for orangutans, shapeless, ugly, shirt hanging out, with an array of useless ties, pockets, reinforcements. An equally shapeless and ugly cap. Over subsequent years this mess has gone further downhill, if that's possible, to the computer-pixel horror of today. Go back to the 1970s fatigues, please.

    (2) OK, I know that I'm an offender by proposing grey berets for PSYOP and purple ones for CA in my MindWar book, but that's just because the beret business has gone over the top already: black, tan, maroon, have I missed any? Let's take a deep breath and get rid of all the berets except the Green, which has earned its existence and immortality.

    (3) I still can't figure out why the Army decided to discontinue the green dress uniform in favor of the blue. The greens were perfect for daily "business" wear: the right amount of military design without being awkward or pretentious. Also you could add things like bloused jump boots and Green Beret to it without clashing. The dress blue is fine for fancy-dress/formal occasions, but for daily/business wear looks like you're a Civil War reenactor who just stepped off the Gettysburg set. The officers' shoulderboards don't work under overcoats, and the Army's tradition of full-color unit patches, DUI, and shoulder tabs has now crashed in favor of absurd tin pocket-patches and pin-on minitabs with pointless curvature. Worse yet, at Bragg soldiers are blousing boots and wearing all sorts of colored berets with the blues, which I can't even begin to visualize. Go back to the greens, and leave the blues for the Old Guard and formal occasions.

    (4) Have a compulsion to mess with the green uniform? O.K., get rid of the coat and bring back the Ike jacket.

    (5) Let Army male officers carry black umbrellas when it's raining. [I think this is already permitted the ladies.] The USAF and USN can, and don't seem to suffer chromosome loss from doing so. The Marines like getting wet, so not an issue in their case.

    (6) Boots: Back to classy black Corcorans or similar issue, unless you're really, actually in a jungle or desert.

    (7) Headgear: In addition to bringing back the greens, bring back the overseas cap except for SF.

    (8) While I don't really mind the green Class-B shirt/trousers combination, I think we lost something nice with the Army Tan shirt/trousers combination. [I wouldn't bring back the coat/trousers version; at that point just stay with the green.]
    Michael A. Aquino
    LTC, PSYOP, USA-Ret.

  5. #125
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterBen View Post
    +1. In addition to many combat arms MOS OSUT locations; Drill Sergeants stay with you throughout BCT and AIT.
    Thinking back to my Transportation AIT, which was in 1967 at Fort Eustis, VA, there were NO Drill Sergeants on the post, not even for the Transportation OCS. The Class Commander, who was the senior SP5 who was transitioning into the MOS, was in charge of us, and the Platoon Sergeant was a member of the AIT Company I was assigned to. The instructors were civilian Teachers for the most part, with the single exception of when we were sent over to Fort Story, VA for our Survival, Escape, Evasion & Resistance training before we were graduated and deployed to Vietnam (In our day the "R"for Resistance was located at the end of the acronym, not in the middle). Yes, we got Water-boarded by Drill Sergeants who all were Staff Sergeants who had survived an Infantry tour in Nam.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1

    Quote Originally Posted by MAquino View Post
    Apologies for not reading through all the previous pages of this thread. Anyway it's always fun, if not necessarily productive, to vent on the subject of Army uniforms, so here's my 2¢-worth:

    (1) By the mid-1970s the Army had finally gotten fatigues just right: nice OD color, fabric, weight, permanent press, comfortable, attractive, tough, and easily maintainable. Sew-on subdued insignia. Baseball cap/bright insignia. Shirt inside trousers.

    Then someone with Vietnam nostalgia came along with the BDU: hot, tailored for orangutans, shapeless, ugly, shirt hanging out, with an array of useless ties, pockets, reinforcements. An equally shapeless and ugly cap. Over subsequent years this mess has gone further downhill, if that's possible, to the computer-pixel horror of today. Go back to the 1970s fatigues, please.

    (2) OK, I know that I'm an offender by proposing grey berets for PSYOP and purple ones for CA in my MindWar book, but that's just because the beret business has gone over the top already: black, tan, maroon, have I missed any? Let's take a deep breath and get rid of all the berets except the Green, which has earned its existence and immortality.

    (3) I still can't figure out why the Army decided to discontinue the green dress uniform in favor of the blue. The greens were perfect for daily "business" wear: the right amount of military design without being awkward or pretentious. Also you could add things like bloused jump boots and Green Beret to it without clashing. The dress blue is fine for fancy-dress/formal occasions, but for daily/business wear looks like you're a Civil War reenactor who just stepped off the Gettysburg set. The officers' shoulderboards don't work under overcoats, and the Army's tradition of full-color unit patches, DUI, and shoulder tabs has now crashed in favor of absurd tin pocket-patches and pin-on minitabs with pointless curvature. Worse yet, at Bragg soldiers are blousing boots and wearing all sorts of colored berets with the blues, which I can't even begin to visualize. Go back to the greens, and leave the blues for the Old Guard and formal occasions.

    (4) Have a compulsion to mess with the green uniform? O.K., get rid of the coat and bring back the Ike jacket.

    (5) Let Army male officers carry black umbrellas when it's raining. [I think this is already permitted the ladies.] The USAF and USN can, and don't seem to suffer chromosome loss from doing so. The Marines like getting wet, so not an issue in their case.

    (6) Boots: Back to classy black Corcorans or similar issue, unless you're really, actually in a jungle or desert.

    (7) Headgear: In addition to bringing back the greens, bring back the overseas cap except for SF.

    (8) While I don't really mind the green Class-B shirt/trousers combination, I think we lost something nice with the Army Tan shirt/trousers combination. [I wouldn't bring back the coat/trousers version; at that point just stay with the green.]
    It's nice to be able to read an intelligent, coherent reply on this thread. Thank you for your input, and thank you especially for not sounding like Corny in your response, what with his vague recollections of his time serving during the Revolutionary War and all.

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    Exclamation Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1 source


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    Re: Upcoming changes to AR 670-1 source

    Quote Originally Posted by ryankenaz View Post
    Old news; what I'm asking is when anything that actually was approved will be published and implemented.

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