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Thread: Any Truth In This?

  1. #1021
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRUWIN View Post
    My answer...no it is not.
    It is also not difficult to use turn signals when you're driving. How can we expect someone who can't use turn signals to perform maintenance on nuclear missiles?

    The use of turn signals should be the next 5MT.

  2. #1022
    Senior Member Robert F. Dorr's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    "Then-Lt. Col. Joe Ralston went on to become Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for instance. No discipline, no no-contact order; just a fast track to promotion."

    No one knew about Ralston's affair until 13 years later when he was a four-star. When the affair with an unmarried CIA officer became public, Ralston and his by-then-ex-wife gave different versions. His version was that the affair happened while he and his wife were separated. Had the affair become public when it happened, it's likely nothing would have happened since no one cared about stuff like that in 1980. The affair became known when Ralston was completing his tour as vice chairman, not before he "went on to become" vice.

    Ralston was the nominee to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when the affair was revealed 13 years after it happened. After it was revealed, he still had the support of the president and the secretary of defense. Ralston lost his opportunity to become Chairman because of the affair. You may argue that Ralston didn't suffer any punishment, but what about the nation? Ralston would have made a good chairman and with the singular exception of Adm. Mike Mullen we haven't had a good chairman since the year this flap occurred (1993).

    It was "then-Gen." Ralston who underwent this experience in 1993, not "then-Lt. Col." Ralston who had an affair that no one knew about in 1980. In its best interpretation, it was an affair between a separated, married man and a single woman. In its worst, it was adultery by a married man with a single woman. That, my friends, is different from "banging the dependent husband of a member of the officer's squadron."

    I don't know about you but I wonder if things might have gone better if Ralston had been chairman instead of the mediocre Shalikashvili and Shelton, and those sycophantic suck-ups Myers and Pace.


    Ralston lost

  3. #1023
    Senior Member Shrike's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    It is also not difficult to use turn signals when you're driving. How can we expect someone who can't use turn signals to perform maintenance on nuclear missiles?

    The use of turn signals should be the next 5MT.
    That's a pet peeve of mine, so I'd 5MT turn signals to a Bularstic level.
    Retirement rocks!


    A 1911 in the hand is better than 911 on the phone.

  4. #1024
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
    That's a pet peeve of mine, so I'd 5MT turn signals to a Bularstic level.
    My pet peeve is people that affix postage stamps upside down. That kind of carelessness on an aircraft gets people killed...that's my 10MT

  5. #1025
    Senior Member BRUWIN's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    It is also not difficult to use turn signals when you're driving. How can we expect someone who can't use turn signals to perform maintenance on nuclear missiles?

    The use of turn signals should be the next 5MT.
    It won't be any 1 or 5MT with me. I am of the age I either don't use a turn signal or just leave one on for the duration of the ride.

  6. #1026
    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    "Then-Lt. Col. Joe Ralston went on to become Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for instance. No discipline, no no-contact order; just a fast track to promotion."

    No one knew about Ralston's affair until 13 years later when he was a four-star. When the affair with an unmarried CIA officer became public, Ralston and his by-then-ex-wife gave different versions. His version was that the affair happened while he and his wife were separated. Had the affair become public when it happened, it's likely nothing would have happened since no one cared about stuff like that in 1980. The affair became known when Ralston was completing his tour as vice chairman, not before he "went on to become" vice.

    Ralston was the nominee to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when the affair was revealed 13 years after it happened. After it was revealed, he still had the support of the president and the secretary of defense. Ralston lost his opportunity to become Chairman because of the affair. You may argue that Ralston didn't suffer any punishment, but what about the nation? Ralston would have made a good chairman and with the singular exception of Adm. Mike Mullen we haven't had a good chairman since the year this flap occurred (1993).

    It was "then-Gen." Ralston who underwent this experience in 1993, not "then-Lt. Col." Ralston who had an affair that no one knew about in 1980. In its best interpretation, it was an affair between a separated, married man and a single woman. In its worst, it was adultery by a married man with a single woman. That, my friends, is different from "banging the dependent husband of a member of the officer's squadron."

    I don't know about you but I wonder if things might have gone better if Ralston had been chairman instead of the mediocre Shalikashvili and Shelton, and those sycophantic suck-ups Myers and Pace.


    Ralston lost
    I'll confess that I haven't read any of your books and I don't always read your column in the AF Times, but I must admit I like your contributions to this forum so far and I'm impressed (and surprised) that you comment using your real name. You obviously have a vast knowledge of AF history, and apparently have some strongly held opinions as well. But are you sure you want to post comments like the one above about Myers & Pace under your real name? I'd hate to think something you posted here could come back and bite you in the ass. If your facts are correct and your arguments sound, it shouldn't matter if you post under "Robert F. Dorr" or "Joebag O'Donuts". Obviously it's your call, but if I were you and wanted to keep commenting here in the spirit of this forum, I'd re-register under a pseudonym.

    Either way, thanks for contributing.
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
    ~Mignon McLaughlin

  7. #1027
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRUWIN View Post
    It won't be any 1 or 5MT with me. I am of the age I either don't use a turn signal or just leave one on for the duration of the ride.
    That's how it starts...next thing you know your using a polka dot umbrella...then pencil-whipping maintenance records!

  8. #1028
    Senior Member ChiefB's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
    Over the last six months or so the XXXX.af.mil sites have really cracked down on what comments they allow. Too much stupidity being pointed out as the BS it truly is, I guess.
    In other words, Govt' censureship...
    ChiefB

    It's the same in all wars, the very young and adventurous give up their lives for the old and cautious, and so the bluecollar for the privileged, the uneducated for the student, the poor for the well off, the patriot for the politician, and the few for the many.

    TC6, C5

  9. #1029
    Tak
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Any af entity approves af friendly stories, not terrorist friendly comments.

  10. #1030
    Senior Member ChiefB's Avatar
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    Re: Any Truth In This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pueblo View Post
    But if a no-contact order had almost never been used against a flying officer in a similar situation up until that point, doesn't that mean adultery is a bigger part of the dynamic than Fogleman was willing to admit?
    First, I would have to know the source of this fact... because no-contact orders are not generally known wether given to Os or Es, so stats probably don't exist.

    Secondly, she lied that she was indeed having contact with her partner and failed to follow a direct and lawful order. So, the final charge that forced her out of the AF is pretty much irrelevant and according to the General, adultery was not her most serious offense. Lying and failure to follow was.

    Let's face it, she was a pampered, spoiled AF officer that didn't feel discipline and conduct rules applied to her. "Prima donna" comes to mind.
    ChiefB

    It's the same in all wars, the very young and adventurous give up their lives for the old and cautious, and so the bluecollar for the privileged, the uneducated for the student, the poor for the well off, the patriot for the politician, and the few for the many.

    TC6, C5

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