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Thread: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

  1. #171
    Senior Member grimreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

    Some ask what business the government has in "redefining marriage". Maybe they have a point but they fail to ask the next logical question: what business did the government have in defining "marriage" in the first place?

    The government shouldn't "marry" anyone. It has no business regulating our private domestic arrangements in that fashion and there is no Constitutional justification for its doing so.

    Instead of deciding who can be "married" and who cannot, instead of presuming to tell us how to lead our private lives, the government should rather treat ALL domestic arrangements as they would any other contract: the parties that were planning on cohabiting would draw up a contract between them stipulating their duties and expectations in the relationship. Basically, EVERY COUPLE, gay or straight, would be in a "civil union" as far as the law was concerned. The government's ONLY job would be to register that such a contract had been made and to adjudicate disputes arising from breach of that contract ("divorce"). ALL such contracts would be treated EQUALLY under the law and the parties to such contracts would enjoy the same legal rights regardless of the nature of their intimate relationship, so there would no longer be a civil rights issue.

    None of this is to say people couldn't be "married" if they so choose, simply that this would no longer be the government's business. Rather, it would be up to them to find a church or religious organization willing to "marry" them. Since such a marriage would be a solely religious affair separate from and without legal bearing on the contractual union, these churches would be allowed to discriminate against whomever they want according to whatever doctrine guides them.

    There is ALREADY a precedent for this. Divorced Catholics, for example, can remarry LEGALLY even if they forbidden to divorce by the Church. A situation thus exists wherein the remarried Catholic is married LEGALLY to his or her new spouse but remains married in the eyes of the Church to the original spouse.

    If we could implement such a plan of removing the government altogether from this silly game of defining words and forced it to do its job and define the law, it would satisfy all but the nuts on both sides. REAL conservatives will be happy to see the government's influence removed from such a private aspect of citizens' personal lives as to with whom they choose to be. Libertarians will be happy on that account and because our fellow citizens are no longer being oppressed and discriminated against by an over-bearing state. Liberals will be happy because gay relationships will be able to enjoy equal protection under the law.

    Then we can get back to the truly important issues, like arguing about which "race" is the most racist.

  2. #172
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
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    Re: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by candycane3482 View Post
    http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/c...ality-1.144399

    Protection from what? People should only be talking about religion with the chaplain, at their religious observances or places of worship and that's it. There is no need to be discussing it at work. Do that on your off time. If you don't like homosexuals, fine. But that doesn't mean you get to spout off about it. Do racists get to spout off their hatred for blacks, etc? No. Respect people.
    I ask the following to the part I made bold: 1) Where did you come to that conclusion, 2) Says who, and 3) Aren't you expressing a point of view, not a fact? If it is a point of view, why should I or anyone else follow it? Perhaps you should precede that with "In my opinion".

    Furthermore, aren't you expressing intolerance by not respecting the point of view of those who disagree with homosexuality? And how would you know that's their view, and be afforded the opportunity to practice the tolerance you cherish unless they expressed it? Seems to be a double standard to me.

    In reference to your statement about what people should talk to a chaplain about, and where, I could ask the same question: Is that an opinion or matter of fact? If it's opinion, ok. If not, who made you the ultimate authority on this matter? Because you made it a statement.

    I suggest you talk to a Military Chaplain, and discover exactly what functions they perform. You'll find it's more than religion. Our Chaplain has expressed that more than 70% of his discussions with Military servicemembers have nothing to do with religion. Furthermore, did you know that the Military Chaplain has the only absolute confidentiality? In other words, you can go tell a Chaplain anything and he CANNOT and WILL NOT report it to anyone no matter what you say. Not even doctors or lawyers are extended that privelege.

    Finally, where do you draw the conclusion that only religious people disagree with the homosexual lifestyle? If that's not the case, it makes it difficult to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the source of disagreement stimulates soley from religion, doesn't it?
    [B]SSgt Mike / USMC[/B]

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    "Don't give fools a foolish answer, or you will be just like them. But answer fools as they should be answered, or they will think they are really wise." Proverbs 26:4-5.

  3. #173
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by E4RUMOR View Post
    I ask the following to the part I made bold: 1) Where did you come to that conclusion, 2) Says who, and 3) Aren't you expressing a point of view, not a fact? If it is a point of view, why should I or anyone else follow it? Perhaps you should precede that with "In my opinion".

    Furthermore, aren't you expressing intolerance by not respecting the point of view of those who disagree with homosexuality? And how would you know that's their view, and be afforded the opportunity to practice the tolerance you cherish unless they expressed it? Seems to be a double standard to me.

    In reference to your statement about what people should talk to a chaplain about, and where, I could ask the same question: Is that an opinion or matter of fact? If it's opinion, ok. If not, who made you the ultimate authority on this matter? Because you made it a statement.

    I suggest you talk to a Military Chaplain, and discover exactly what functions they perform. You'll find it's more than religion. Our Chaplain has expressed that more than 70% of his discussions with Military servicemembers have nothing to do with religion. Furthermore, did you know that the Military Chaplain has the only absolute confidentiality? In other words, you can go tell a Chaplain anything and he CANNOT and WILL NOT report it to anyone no matter what you say. Not even doctors or lawyers are extended that privelege.

    Finally, where do you draw the conclusion that only religious people disagree with the homosexual lifestyle? If that's not the case, it makes it difficult to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the source of disagreement stimulates soley from religion, doesn't it?
    FYSA, unless she's been just lurking since then, this easily one of the last times we've seen anything from candycane.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

  4. #174
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
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    Re: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    FYSA, unless she's been just lurking since then, this easily one of the last times we've seen anything from candycane.
    Thanks. The observations still stand, however.
    [B]SSgt Mike / USMC[/B]

    "Your mission in life, should you choose to accept it or not, in which this case you don't have a choice..." -SSgt Mike.

    "Don't give fools a foolish answer, or you will be just like them. But answer fools as they should be answered, or they will think they are really wise." Proverbs 26:4-5.

  5. #175
    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: Chaplains seek protection for troops to share views on homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by E4RUMOR View Post
    Thanks. The observations still stand, however.
    I just wouldn't hold your breath for a quick response...
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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