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Thread: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Ok...shouldn't have used the word "prove". I'll try it this was. It continues to make me believe that nothing will happen.
    Agreed...it is possible, but highly unlikely. More likely would be a return to the Pre-WWII mode of operation-military manning ramps up for conflicts then constricts during peacetime. In order for that to happen though, we would have to keep our noses out of everyone else's business....
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    Agreed...it is possible, but highly unlikely. More likely would be a return to the Pre-WWII mode of operation-military manning ramps up for conflicts then constricts during peacetime. In order for that to happen though, we would have to keep our noses out of everyone else's business....
    More important, we would have to restore the two-tier Rank system. in World War One, all rank gained during the declared conflict period was lost upon return to CONUS, with the only hope for regaining your rank as permanent being the TIS/TIG clock running down. Example: George Patton started WW One as a Captain, and advanced to Full Bird in charge of a Brigade by the end of the war. He reverted to Captain at the declared end of the war in 1920, and his TIS/TIG Clock ran out the following day, whereupon he advanced to Major. Took him another 18 Years to regain his Full Bird, which brought him to 1938. Of course, he deployed to North Africa in 1942 as a Two Star in charge of a Corps, and finished the war as a Four Star, which was supposed to be his Retirement Rank if he had been alive to retire. The rule for Enlisted were almost the same. The two-tier system was the same, but you only retained the wartime rank on pain of performance, and your wartime rank could be declared Permanent if your TIS/TIG clock had run down by the end of the war.

    Now. Do you really want to restart that system?
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    :usa2 I had a Navy Chief that retired but it took forever to be ret, at a LT because of 'Nam promotion;I had thought(ASSumed) you retired at the Highest rate/rank honorable received? :sad

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    Re: What you gonna do...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    You're going to get paid. Oh, wait. That was five years ago. Okay. You're going to get paid.
    RFD,

    What was your prediction for then sequester? Hopefully you are correct and then you will be something around 1 for 12.

  5. #595
    JD2780
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    Re: What you gonna do...

    Quote Originally Posted by tiredretiredE7 View Post
    RFD,

    What was your prediction for then sequester? Hopefully you are correct and then you will be something around 1 for 12.
    Yea with odds like that he should hit Vegas.

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    More important, we would have to restore the two-tier Rank system. in World War One, all rank gained during the declared conflict period was lost upon return to CONUS, with the only hope for regaining your rank as permanent being the TIS/TIG clock running down. Example: George Patton started WW One as a Captain, and advanced to Full Bird in charge of a Brigade by the end of the war. He reverted to Captain at the declared end of the war in 1920, and his TIS/TIG Clock ran out the following day, whereupon he advanced to Major. Took him another 18 Years to regain his Full Bird, which brought him to 1938. Of course, he deployed to North Africa in 1942 as a Two Star in charge of a Corps, and finished the war as a Four Star, which was supposed to be his Retirement Rank if he had been alive to retire. The rule for Enlisted were almost the same. The two-tier system was the same, but you only retained the wartime rank on pain of performance, and your wartime rank could be declared Permanent if your TIS/TIG clock had run down by the end of the war.

    Now. Do you really want to restart that system?
    That is totallly and completely untrue...now if you said for officers...then you would be close to true but I am sure there was at least one that kept at least one promotion AND for quite a few, the postwar demotion was only for a matter of days. You are also wrong about the trigger being the return to CONUS. Even officers that never left the states were promoted and lost promotions upon cessation of hostilities....
    For Enlisted, 1,900 were demoted post war but new NCO ranks were also created....
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    That is totallly and completely untrue...now if you said for officers...then you would be close to true but I am sure there was at least one that kept at least one promotion AND for quite a few, the postwar demotion was only for a matter of days. You are also wrong about the trigger being the return to CONUS. Even officers that never left the states were promoted and lost promotions upon cessation of hostilities....
    For Enlisted, 1,900 were demoted post war but new NCO ranks were also created....
    The trigger was June 30, 1920, which was set by Congress to correspond to the return of the the last units from Deployment. The last units did not DEROS until 1920. Yes, people who did not deploy were subject to the same Temporary Rank structure for the duration, and yes they did lose their rank under the same rules, but the fact that they didn't deploy did affect their advancement under the Permanent Rank rules that returned. As for Enlisted, it did affect them for two reasons: in the first place their Temporary Rank did terminate on June 30, 1920, just like officers (remember, this is BEFORE World War Two), but theit TIS/TIG Clock had continued to run, so they generally could keep the rank if they had achieved TIG/TIS for that permanent rank. The other Caveat was the EMs who deployed with Reserve Commissions under their arms. They were allowed to function under those commissions for the duration of the war, but were reverted to Enlisted Status as of June 30, 1920, with the proviso that the reversion would return them to not less than Sergeant rank until their TIS/TIG Clock caught up with them. If they wanted to retain their Officer rank, they could go to the Guard, but that was their only option short of another war. Incidentally, by 1925, the Army was reduced to the 1st Infantry Division as the only complete Division within CONUS, with the Hawaiian Division and the Philippine Division as the only complete divisions OCONUS. The other Divisions were reduced to a Headquarters Detachment and a single Battalion, and they spent the interregnum training the National Guard. The Regiments were returned to Independent status, and reduced to Three Squadrons/Battalions with 4 Companies/Troops/Batteries in the first two and 2 in the third as they had been pre-war. These conditions prevailed until the start of the build up in 1939, when units of the National Guard was called to Federal Service. The Regular Divisions started restoration in 1940.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
    :usa2 I had a Navy Chief that retired but it took forever to be ret, at a LT because of 'Nam promotion;I had thought(ASSumed) you retired at the Highest rate/rank honorable received? :sad
    Yes to your assumption IF the highest rank held was PERMANENT. In that case, if you subsequently lost your stripes for whatever reason, if it was honorable, then, yes, you would retire at that rank.

    If that rank was TEMPORARY war-time rank, then NO to your assumption.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
    [/FONT][/B][/SIZE]

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    Yes to your assumption IF the highest rank held was PERMANENT. In that case, if you subsequently lost your stripes for whatever reason, if it was honorable, then, yes, you would retire at that rank.

    If that rank was TEMPORARY war-time rank, then NO to your assumption.
    :usa2 Thank you for your kind reply Sir, 'RC'. :typing

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    Re: If government shuts down, so would troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
    :usa2 I had a Navy Chief that retired but it took forever to be ret, at a LT because of 'Nam promotion;I had thought(ASSumed) you retired at the Highest rate/rank honorable received? :sad
    It's not always immediate retirement in the highest grade, and there are many permutations to how this can work out depending on when it happened. Some Navy chiefs may have previously served as limited duty officers or warrant officers, and for various reasons reverted to enlisted status. If such a chief has less than 30 years of active service, a nondisability retirement would be in enlisted status and pay. When their active and fleet reserve time totaled 30 years, they're entitled to be advanced on the retired list to "the highest grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily, as determined by the Secretary of the Navy." See 10 U.S.C. 6334. In some situations, the member is best off not exercising the entitlement (I knew a master chief who had been a warrant officer, and he chose not to advance to warrant because retirement as an E-9 paid more.

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