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Thread: PFC Manning Hero?

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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    If you are referring to the text in the balloon, Then I will say that I did that to hold you as an example of a person who gives disjointed answers that do not refer back to the question. My posting was to give the proper reasons for your answer to the earlier question. You said that Snowden wouldn't face treason charges, but you never said WHY. I gave forth the facts as to WHY Snowden probably won't face treason charges since he gave his confession outside of open court, and his actions probably weren't witnessed by two witnesses. When he shows up in court, I will assume that he has a lawyer with enough acumen to have him plead Not Guilty, and to file a motion to suppress the confession because he wasn't in open court when he gave it, and he wasn't represented by counsel.
    As usual your grasp has exceeded your capability. There is nothing disjointed whatsoever about my answer (to anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension skills).

    I directly answered the question asked....

    Garhkl:" So would it still be logical to extend the 'traitor' moniker to Snowden like many did with Manning?”

    Taking into consideration what I believe to be a common misuse of the charge of Treason I answered….

    Me: ”Using the faulty definition which these people did then yes it would. It should be noted that Manning has not been charged with treason. I don't see Snowdon being charged with that particular crime either. Other crimes, yes, just not treason.”


    You decided to AGAIN troll Google and cut and paste completely unnecessary missives in a misguided attempt to show what I am sure you believe to be intelligence. You AGAIN failed.

    If you desired to provide information, fine do so and waste time, ours and yours. Don’t quote me unless it directly relates to what I have said. Otherwise, as always be prepared to be called on it.

    Now this post in which you AGAIN attempt to deflect (reference the bold….more irrelevance to anything I have posted).

    BTW: Care to further discuss how a civilian military spouse can be charged under the UCMJ again?
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  2. #182
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    I'll agree, the term is often misused.

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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    So would it still be logical to extend the 'traitor' moniker to Snowden like many did with Manning?
    Absolutely. Whether they actually qualify as traitors, that is a legal definition but sure, you can call 'em both pretty much anything you want.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    I'm sick of hearing and reading about the Manning case and the new NSA leaks by Snowden. We have laws and are too stupid to enforce them. We should have hung Manning a long time ago and Snowden should have been hung at least a week ago. Treason is treason. There will be others that come out and try to hide behind the label 'whistleblower'. Need to hang these cowards to protect this great Nation. Our leaders need to lead and not cower to the media and the extreme small percentage of pacifists.

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    Senior Member CORNELIUSSEON's Avatar
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapper COL View Post
    I'm sick of hearing and reading about the Manning case and the new NSA leaks by Snowden. We have laws and are too stupid to enforce them. We should have hung Manning a long time ago and Snowden should have been hung at least a week ago. Treason is treason. There will be others that come out and try to hide behind the label 'whistleblower'. Need to hang these cowards to protect this great Nation. Our leaders need to lead and not cower to the media and the extreme small percentage of pacifists.
    I agree – in general – with what you say, but the real problem with PFC Manning is that he was poorly led. Back in the day when I spent a lot of time working in a Battalion S-2/3, we didn’t have the ability to do what Manning did because he had access to the Internet and modern electronic computers, and I worked with paper and microfiche. In those days, the kind of information that Manning stole was kept locked up in a safe, and authorized persons signed into and out from that safe every time they place such information in and took it out. There was no Copier in that S-2/3, and requests to copy such information had to be made in writing, and specific people were detailed with the job of making those copies, for which the requester signed his life away when taking possession of those copies. No one was allowed to bring personal property into and from the room the safe was located in, and anyone who came in or left was subject to being searched for such personal property.

    My points are these:

    1. Why was PFC Manning working at a computer that had one or more USB Ports? I’ll bet that it doesn’t have a Floppy Drive or an Optical Drive, and it is isolated from WiFi.
    2. Since he was only a PFC, why was he allowed to work reletively unsupervised?
    3. Why didn’t his work require countersigning by his Supervisor. Double Logging by the Supervisor’s CAC and Manning’s CAC would limit, if not prevent, his stealing of data.
    4. Why was he given such open access to data he wasn’t specifically ordered to work on? If his Supervisor wanted him to work on a specific file, then that supervisor should have set access to Manning’s CAC for the duration of the work period, with access withdrawn at the end of the work period.

    The bottom line is that if Manning’s leaders had done their jobs, then Manning would have had less of an opportunity to screw up the way he did.

    As for Snowden, we were just asking for his crime to be committed when we outsourced such work to contractors. Again, the persons who managed their contract failed to do their jobs, giving Snowden plenty of time to do what he did.

    Fortunately, he is now charged with two Espionage charges, and the theft of Federal property.

    In both cases, their supervisory/management personnel should get a career haircut as well.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Well, now, it seems that Snowden has started to feel the heat, and has fled to Russia. Any bets on how long he stays there?
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
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    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

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    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    Well, now, it seems that Snowden has started to feel the heat, and has fled to Russia. Any bets on how long he stays there?
    My guess is Russia is a fuel stop. He will not be staying in Russia. Iceland has been mentioned as a destination.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    My guess is Russia is a fuel stop. He will not be staying in Russia. Iceland has been mentioned as a destination.
    He never left the airport and now they don't know where he is. He was supposed to be headed to Cuba but never took the flight. Ecuador is considering giving him safe harbour...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    And how do they expect to get him there from russia on a straight through flight?

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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    And how do they expect to get him there from russia on a straight through flight?
    He was supposed to stop in Cuba and Venezuala on the way there...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

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