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Thread: PFC Manning Hero?

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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    Obviously you haven't noticed that I've not asked you to retract any of your garbage. The simple reason why I haven't is that I have better things to do with my time than worry about the quality of what you say on a forum. When you say something that I consider assinine, that I know you aren't going to want to change, I simply pass on to the next post. You are the one who likes to deflect, flame, and derail the flow of discussion, not me. And that is all I have to say on this topic.


    Why would I retract the truth? Give me one example and I will retract it if not true.

    Flaming I will agree with, deflection......you are the frapping KING of deflection. Well to be truthful ATTEMPTS at deflection since most of the effort is pitiful.

    This thread is yet another example.

    You made claims as to his plea a year ago............false

    You made claims as to what pleas are available in the Court Martial system......false.

    To this day, no admission (as with every other bullshit filled post)
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    We have had our share of show trials on this side of the Atlantic. The Rosenberg Trial comes to mind, as does the McCarthy Hearings. More recently, the Mai Lai Massacre Court-martial was mostly Show. General Court-martials tend to be that way by design because they normally send all controversial issues to that venue.

    Not sure what message you are trying to get across as it relates to Joe's post. Rosenburgs were tried in civilian court. The McCarthy hearings were not trials. I will agree that full justice was never rendered in the Mai Lai incident.

    General Courts Martial are hardly 'shows' be design and if you mean that trials that make the news are usually the result of serious crimes and all serious crimes under the UCMJ go to General Court Martian and I suppose the irrelevant statement "they normally send all controversial issues to that venue" is true but nullified by the first part of the statement.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Come on Joe........that list is a political stunt. I know you grasp that. It is tried in almost every case with political undertones and fails in most of them.
    If Obama badmouthed me before my day in court, I would call him out on it too. Especially as the president, he is a part of the military chain of command. Obama oppened his trap to smooth the feathers of the warhawks, now he's being called out on it.

    I would be interested in your explanation for why the OTHER 37 witnesses were denied - especially since most of them had a relatively large role in the events leading up to Manning's arrest. What was Manning's psychiatric evaluation? Was he deemed unfit for deployment, or was he not? If so, why wasn't his security clearance pulled? What was the unit's policy on external memory? Was this policy explained to the troops? Was the policy enforced? Was Manning seen copying or moving the leaked data? These are all questions that need to be answered in the trial. Even with a guilty verdict, they still need to be answered, as they explain his role in the leak, and his mental state at the time.

    I want this kid (a broken kid in my opinion) to get a fair trail. What I don't want is for it to turn into some pulpit to promote some agenda. Either the kid committed the crimes or he didn't. Well more accurately, the DoD can prove he committed the crimes or they can't. The rest is just fluff.
    That's the million dollar question, isn't it? So far, all the "evidence" the DoD has is a doctored chat log. Freedom of Information requests for the full transcript of the conversations in question are at this time unresolved. And even after a year of intense interrogation and solitary confinement, they still haven't dragged a confession out of him.

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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    If Obama badmouthed me before my day in court, I would call him out on it too. Especially as the president, he is a part of the military chain of command. Obama oppened his trap to smooth the feathers of the warhawks, now he's being called out on it.

    I would be interested in your explanation for why the OTHER 37 witnesses were denied - especially since most of them had a relatively large role in the events leading up to Manning's arrest. What was Manning's psychiatric evaluation? Was he deemed unfit for deployment, or was he not? If so, why wasn't his security clearance pulled? What was the unit's policy on external memory? Was this policy explained to the troops? Was the policy enforced? Was Manning seen copying or moving the leaked data? These are all questions that need to be answered in the trial. Even with a guilty verdict, they still need to be answered, as they explain his role in the leak, and his mental state at the time.



    That's the million dollar question, isn't it? So far, all the "evidence" the DoD has is a doctored chat log. Freedom of Information requests for the full transcript of the conversations in question are at this time unresolved. And even after a year of intense interrogation and solitary confinement, they still haven't dragged a confession out of him.
    Should his chain of command be held accountable? Yes they should. They failed just as much as he did. However, I feel like people are avoiding the mere fact that Manning broke the law. He violated his non-disclosure agreement. He deserves to be punished for that at least.

    Now the unit - if he worked in an S2 or whatever intel section he worked in was the WORST S2 ever. There is absolutely no way he should have been able to bring a CD to work and listen to it on a classified computer. That's how he downloaded the stuff - he put it on a CD labeled "Lady GaGa." I never even let people put DVDs into a SIPR computer. Then I was in Iraq when the virus happened and they shut off the USB ports to computers. Memory sticks went away after that because people don't know how to be responsible.

    I'm not sure how he managed to get security clearance if he was so "mentally unstable." They do pretty thorough background checks so either he never had a mental evaluations during his investigation OR he lied on his SF86 (which is a federal offense itself). If he had any mental evaluations after his investigation, it's not going to get reported to OPM or CCF unless the S2 or Security Office reports it up.

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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    If Obama badmouthed me before my day in court, I would call him out on it too. Especially as the president, he is a part of the military chain of command. Obama oppened his trap to smooth the feathers of the warhawks, now he's being called out on it.

    I would be interested in your explanation for why the OTHER 37 witnesses were denied - especially since most of them had a relatively large role in the events leading up to Manning's arrest. What was Manning's psychiatric evaluation? Was he deemed unfit for deployment, or was he not? If so, why wasn't his security clearance pulled? What was the unit's policy on external memory? Was this policy explained to the troops? Was the policy enforced? Was Manning seen copying or moving the leaked data? These are all questions that need to be answered in the trial. Even with a guilty verdict, they still need to be answered, as they explain his role in the leak, and his mental state at the time.

    Ahhhhh, another conspiracy. I get it. Who were the other 37 witnesses denied?

    If indeed they could offer direct and relevant evidence to most of the things you mentioned then yes they should be heard from.



    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    That's the million dollar question, isn't it? So far, all the "evidence" the DoD has is a doctored chat log. Freedom of Information requests for the full transcript of the conversations in question are at this time unresolved. And even after a year of intense interrogation and solitary confinement, they still haven't dragged a confession out of him.
    "Doctored chat log"? Is this indeed a fact or something the defense is claiming? You realize there is often a difference right? "Dragged a confession out of him"....a little dramatic don't you think?
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Why would I retract the truth? Give me one example and I will retract it if not true.

    Flaming I will agree with, deflection......you are the frapping KING of deflection. Well to be truthful ATTEMPTS at deflection since most of the effort is pitiful.

    This thread is yet another example.

    You made claims as to his plea a year ago............false

    You made claims as to what pleas are available in the Court Martial system......false.

    To this day, no admission (as with every other bullshit filled post)
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Not sure what message you are trying to get across as it relates to Joe's post. Rosenburgs were tried in civilian court. The McCarthy hearings were not trials. I will agree that full justice was never rendered in the Mai Lai incident.

    General Courts Martial are hardly 'shows' be design and if you mean that trials that make the news are usually the result of serious crimes and all serious crimes under the UCMJ go to General Court Martian and I suppose the irrelevant statement "they normally send all controversial issues to that venue" is true but nullified by the first part of the statement.
    My response to Joe's post is obvious. I will no longer get into long exchanges with him when I feel that his goal is to derail the
    discussion.

    The Rosenburg trial was none-the-less a show trial. The "proof" against them wasn't released until recent years. The McCarthy Hearings were not held in a court, that is true, but the fact that they were held by the Senate Investigations Committee, and the persons subpoenaed were penalized by Blacklisting when they stood behind their Constitutional Rights, makes the hearings a trial no matter what you call it. My comment on General Courtmartials was in reference to the Mai Lai Trial alone, which is why it and the comment on General Courtsmartial are in the same paragraph.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post
    My response to Joe's post is obvious. I will no longer get into long exchanges with him when I feel that his goal is to derail the
    discussion.

    The Rosenburg trial was none-the-less a show trial. The "proof" against them wasn't released until recent years. The McCarthy Hearings were not held in a court, that is true, but the fact that they were held by the Senate Investigations Committee, and the persons subpoenaed were penalized by Blacklisting when they stood behind their Constitutional Rights, makes the hearings a trial no matter what you call it. My comment on General Courtmartials was in reference to the Mai Lai Trial alone, which is why it and the comment on General Courtsmartial are in the same paragraph.
    And your comment on GCM remains just as wrong.
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by CORNELIUSSEON View Post


    Oh SNAP !!!! You got me with the cricket sound. I have absolutely no comeback for that. God I wish I had a razor sharp wit....



    Jesus Christ, talk about bringing a knife to a gunfight.



    And still.....................

    You made claims as to his plea a year ago............false

    You made claims as to what pleas are available in the Court Martial system......false.

    To this day, no admission (as with every other bullshit filled post)
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    Re: PFC Manning Hero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
    And your comment on GCM remains just as wrong.
    You can only say that because you didn't experience the period when they were still doing Summary Courtsmartial. In those days, many of the charges that go to Special Courtsmartial today were handled at the Summary level, and there was a likewise shift between Special and General Courts. That meant that only really serious issues - most of them with public and/or political and/or National Security overtones - were heard at the General level, and those were the only courtmarshal trials that were exposed to the press. The public still only learn about General Courtmartials, but there are many more of them these days.
    [FONT=arial black]SSG Cornelius Seon, USA (Retired)
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial black]We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

    H.L. Mencken
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