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Thread: How do personnelists get away with it?

  1. #1
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    How do personnelists get away with it?

    My simple question is this. How is it that personellists get away with constantly losing paperwork? I am trying to PCS and turned in documents a month ago. Apparently everything I turned in was lost. When attempting to contact them by the email alias they desire, I get no answers. I would visit them in person but their hours aren't conducive to that since I work at a site that is away from the base I am stationed on and they are generally confrontational when dealt with in person. Finally my chief went in there and they told him I had turned nothing in aside from my assignment rip and that is why I didn't gotten my orders yet. I'm not the only one this is happening to here either. The extreme lack of support from them is rank blind. We've had SSgt's, MSgt's, and SMSgt's all have issues with these guys. But I really want to know, how can people be so blatantly incompetant and nothing is done to them? When they leave they will have 5's on their EPR's and get their end of tour awards. To be honest it makes me sick.

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    I can sympathize. Back in 2001, I put it a humanitarian package in for a reassignment to San Antonio. Two weeks later I had heard nothing so I went back and was told it must have been lost so I recreated it to include the commander’s signature. About a week and a half later I went to check on it and an Airman found it (and my original) in the bottom of her SSgt’s in-box (who had just started 3 weeks leave) so I told her to give it back to me. I was so upset, I walked directly to my commander’s office and told his secretary I needed to see him immediately (trust me - that was the only time in my career I ever pulled that stunt). Our sq. Chief overheard me and asked me what the problem was. I told him and he walked me back to MPF to see their Chief who told us both “Yeah, this happens all the time…” Wanting to keep my (then) new TSgt stripes, I kept my mouth shut. My Chief then asked me to go back to my office. Don’t know what he said to her but I had my orders in hand 8 days later.

    Same deal with Finance - every time I PCS’d I made sure I had plenty of cash on hand as I got the inevitable “no pay due” notices even without taking advanced pay. My favorite Finance story: we had an AB PCS from tech school and got a “no pay” notice on a Friday so he didn’t come into work Monday because “If I’m not going to get paid, I’m not coming to work!”. When he later got a off-duty job off base, I teased him that if they didn't pay him there, he could actually get away with not showing up! Still makes me smile thinking about it…

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    I guess I got lucky my whole career, I didn't have a problem with personnel like these. Sometimes it took longer than I liked for things to get processed but not months. Same for finance, I think I had one voucher my whole career that I had to go check on. Speaking for myself, I like the online everything...it means every action I take gets time stamped by a computer somewhere, no disputing whether I turned in something or sent an email.

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    The most recent example I have is a code against me for a projected formal training course from several years ago still against me. Before that, the most significant was my SGLI form getting lost 2 times; the second submission was solely b/c the first one got lost.

    The most common problem I have seen and dealt with is CRO paperwork getting lost once submitted. Every supervisor I have had, had to submit CRO paperwork more than once and often several times. The times I have submitted it, it also took more than one time. I have also seen this with multiple other supervisors.

    How do they get away with it?

    The first answer is EPR inflation and in reality no one is really being rated on true job performance.

    The second is the military's answer to practically everything is not to figure out the source of the problem, but to just fix the problem - aka just resubmit for the 468th time because you failed to follow-up 6,289 times to make sure someone else was doing their job; it's always your fault (sarcasm intended). Funny though, considering when it comes to safety the AF wants several pages of essays on what was done to prevent recurrence.

    In the case of my SGLI forms...the second time I submitted my most recent changes, I just happened to be served by the section NCOIC. I told her during the process, that my last one was lost and it was the only reason I was there today. She seriously seemed shocked that my paperwork was lost. And then, it gets lost for the second time. Granted it could have happened locally, in the mail, or at AFPC where they scan everything in the system now.

    And its sad to say, but some people are just as bad if not worst in "losing" emails because their management skills are sub-par and the AF does not have a CBT for managing information, more specifically emails. This is an AFI that gives instructions about limiting emails, especially extra-curricular emails, but you try telling that to the Booster Club, Airmen's Council, 5/6, Top 3, Diamond's Council, Chief's Whatever, the Shirt himself, the Chief himself, the Commander, the PT Nazi's, AADD, AF Safety, Wing Safety, Group Safety, Squadron Safety, and Flight Safety. DISCLOSURE: I am confident this is not an all inclusive list and it is highly likely I left several organizations off.

    Back to the point...At the same time, their is no real good cost-effective way to physically track actual paperwork; this is why email is good even when someone "loses" it you still have a record on your end who it was sent too so the problem can at least half-way be addressed, but again it often goes back to being your fault because you did not follow-up 29,537 times.

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shove_your_stupid_meeting View Post
    Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.
    Yep. So much for them recruiting 'technical experts.'

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    Perhaps if they came out with a simple user friendly interface on the computer, then the young airmen wouldn't have a problem "losing" so much stuff.

    They should also offer an emailed receipt of whatever you turned in and evidence that you were there that day

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shove_your_stupid_meeting View Post
    Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.
    I don't think it is that. I think that it is a lack of training. Before anyone jumps and says "what? They are closed early twice a week for 'training'..." the problem lies in what they train on, not the fact that they do not do training. Now, I cannot say what they do behind their closed doors when they are closed for training, but it occurs to me that when the small stuff cannot be done right, you should train more on said "small stuff".

    What cranks my tractor about MFP are the times I walked in there and got the holier then thou "we don't do that" answer. Example. I returned from a deployment and after my voucher cleared, I took that, my LOE and my dec to MPF to have my STRD adjusted for the number of days I was deployed. The SSgt that assisted me told me that my UDM did that, not them. I said "well, since the UDM works in the flight I run, I can tell you they don't, you do". To which, the reply was "no, they should be doing it". Not to argue, I left and went back to the office.

    I went to the AFPC web site, pulled down the MFPM that tells MFP that yes, they in fact do this and even includes the instruction HOW to do it WITH EXAMPLES. So I highlight the instructions, go back to MPF walk in (even though they were closed for lunch), went up to the SSgt and simply said "here is the MPFM that tells you that yes, you do this. It has instructions on how to update MILPDS to accomplish this. You WILL put your sandwich down and do this now; if you have probelm that, I suggest you call your section chief or you Chief, right now." It was done right then, and right there. The young lady thanked me for providing her the information on how to do this update.

    What irked me was how quickly the answer was 'no' and I had to go out of my way to provide proof to "the expert" on what their job entails.

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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCommunicator View Post
    I don't think it is that. I think that it is a lack of training.
    I cut most of the quote short to save space. All I can say is that when it comes to MPF, I don't think it's a lack of training. It's a lack of effort. How hard is it to take papers that are handed to you and place them into a folder that you created? It's not like the papers don't have my name on them. It's not like they don't have my SSN on them. Either they are legitimately stupid people or there has to be some malice involved. Now I understand no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. But is it really just a simple mistake anymore when this happens to multiple people. These are the people that should be booted out of the Air Force. If you can't handle something as simple as filing papers and processing orders, which is there job by the way, then you really don't deserve a pay check on the 1st and 15th of the month.

  10. #10
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    Re: How do personnelists get away with it?

    You need to make copies of everything before you turn it in. When you turn it in to someone get the name of the person that you give it to and write down the day and time that you gave it to them.

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