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Thread: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

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    Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    So since I've arrived at this new duty station (back in Nov) I've grown a pretty good appreciation for what the Airmen here produce given their level of experience and time in the AF. Honestly, I wouldn't ever put kids straight out of tech school here, but apparently that point has been beaten to death with the FM. I've been constantly approached by management here to try to get more out of the folk we have here and when I remind them that there is only so much we can expect out of 3 and 5 lvls (some of the critical thinking approaches they want me to instill, I wouldn't expect most 7 lvls to get...), I'm told that skill level shouldn't come into it and it's just a training issue. I also bring up lack of first hand experience in both the AF in general and in the base level functions, which falls on dead ears.

    I recall (all of 6 years ago) that skill levels used to mean something. If you were a 3 lvl, you're job was learning the nuts and bolts of the job and the AF and finishing your CDCs, 5 lvls were expected to be able to complete 95% of the day-to-day with fluency, and 7 lvls were expect to be able to handle pretty much anything thrown at them (job wise). If you weren't signed off on a task, you did not attempt it without supervision.

    Anyone else experiencing anything like this?
    “To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.” - Unknown

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    Senior Member VFFTSGT's Avatar
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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyJ View Post
    So since I've arrived at this new duty station (back in Nov) I've grown a pretty good appreciation for what the Airmen here produce given their level of experience and time in the AF. Honestly, I wouldn't ever put kids straight out of tech school here, but apparently that point has been beaten to death with the FM. I've been constantly approached by management here to try to get more out of the folk we have here and when I remind them that there is only so much we can expect out of 3 and 5 lvls (some of the critical thinking approaches they want me to instill, I wouldn't expect most 7 lvls to get...), I'm told that skill level shouldn't come into it and it's just a training issue. I also bring up lack of first hand experience in both the AF in general and in the base level functions, which falls on dead ears.

    I recall (all of 6 years ago) that skill levels used to mean something. If you were a 3 lvl, you're job was learning the nuts and bolts of the job and the AF and finishing your CDCs, 5 lvls were expected to be able to complete 95% of the day-to-day with fluency, and 7 lvls were expect to be able to handle pretty much anything thrown at them (job wise). If you weren't signed off on a task, you did not attempt it without supervision.

    Anyone else experiencing anything like this?
    Yeah, I have seen skill levels pretty much mean nothing now. Training paperwork is penciled whipped just to get the 2096 through.

    I have evaluated personnel before. Their lack of knowledge was apparent and the trainees even told me their records were pencil whipped.

    I tried to address the systemic training issues. No one cared.

    Career development is apparently the old Air Force. I've seen Tech Sgt's (and SSgt's) that did not know what a CFETP is.

    No one cares if you can do your job or not. Just don't get your name on a PowerPoint slide slow and go to PT.*


    *Some might take this as an exaggeration or PT joke, but it is a very literal and serious statement.

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Quote Originally Posted by VFFTSGT View Post
    Yeah, I have seen skill levels pretty much mean nothing now. Training paperwork is penciled whipped just to get the 2096 through.

    I have evaluated personnel before. Their lack of knowledge was apparent and the trainees even told me their records were pencil whipped.

    I tried to address the systemic training issues. No one cared.

    Career development is apparently the old Air Force. I've seen Tech Sgt's (and SSgt's) that did not know what a CFETP is.

    No one cares if you can do your job or not. Just don't get your name on a PowerPoint slide slow and go to PT.
    ^^This^^. It used to piss me off to no end as an additional duty training manager. I had Staffs and Techs who had no clue what the unit Master Training Plan was, or where to find it, despite repeated demonstration on how to use it. Hell, I even created a spreadsheet of all tasks, along with links to all recommended training sources, and people still didn't care. That being said, the use of a shitty system like AFTR didn't help my case, even though it had gotten better in the few years I had to use it. Talking to other training managers, it seemed like some career fields were overburdened with redundancy in transcribing tasks, sometimes using two or three systems to report training status.

    I did always think it was funny when my Captain would come by and tell me I needed to get an anthrax shot or take care of some ancillary training, only to tell him that it had already been done, or show him the ADLS certs......

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    Senior Member BOSS302's Avatar
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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    I'm amazed at how many brand new A1Cs are more interested in signing-up for UMUC classes than focusing on their CDCs and upgrade training. I'm also uncomfortable with how many NCOs allow the same A1Cs to perform complex job-related tasks that they are not signed-off on or properly trained on...essentially letting them run before they've learned how to walk. There's a reason why many technical jobs in the civilian world involve apprentices shutting up and performing the menial labor tasks as they learn, absorb OJT, and have a chance for the knowledge and hands-on experience to slowly build a solid foundation that will last a lifetime. This is something a lot of crafts in the military have forgotten.

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    Senior Member RFScott's Avatar
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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOSS302 View Post
    I'm amazed at how many brand new A1Cs are more interested in signing-up for UMUC classes than focusing on their CDCs and upgrade training. I'm also uncomfortable with how many NCOs allow the same A1Cs to perform complex job-related tasks that they are not signed-off on or properly trained on...essentially letting them run before they've learned how to walk. There's a reason why many technical jobs in the civilian world involve apprentices shutting up and performing the menial labor tasks as they learn, absorb OJT, and have a chance for the knowledge and hands-on experience to slowly build a solid foundation that will last a lifetime. This is something a lot of crafts in the military have forgotten.
    Don't forget those barbecues and bake sales!

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    :usa2 Now those skills NEVER go out of style......:clock

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Dodo is one word.but doo-doo would be applicable here too,
    Newton's First Law of Motion

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Quote Originally Posted by technomage1 View Post
    Dodo is one word.but doo-doo would be applicable here too,
    Cool story bro.
    “To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.” - Unknown

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    I would agree things are not as clear as they used to be. We get a lot of crosstrainees in my AFSC, which adds to the problem, when you have A1Cs with more technical skill than TSgts. And as we've gottten smaller, we've gotten used to taking the path of least resistance and finding the "go-to guy/gal" regardless of their rank. This results in the expectation that every 3/5-level outght to be able to perform at the level of the hard chargers who take to thing quickly.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

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    Re: Have skill lvls gone the way of the do-do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    I would agree things are not as clear as they used to be. We get a lot of crosstrainees in my AFSC, which adds to the problem, when you have A1Cs with more technical skill than TSgts. And as we've gottten smaller, we've gotten used to taking the path of least resistance and finding the "go-to guy/gal" regardless of their rank. This results in the expectation that every 3/5-level outght to be able to perform at the level of the hard chargers who take to thing quickly.
    This drives me nuts! Nothing pisses me off more than a service agency telling me "that person" isn't here or worst they "PCS'ed" and are trying to get someone spun up on X. Are you freaking kidding me? How do you have only 1 person that can do X in the first place and you let them PCS without training someone first?!

    Things I won't miss.

    At least in the civilian world, I get compensated with credits and refunds if a service provider fails to provide a proper service.

    In the military, you just live in pain for several years or don't get your orders processed on time and you get it without Vaseline and the Doctor that repeatedly misdiagnosed/dismissed you gets a promotion and the MPF nut still gets a 5.

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