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Thread: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

  1. #41
    Member mel44's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    WARNING: More dead horse beating ahead.

    I got your point regarding the source of morals. You ignored my reference to other basis for morals (i.e. “be it for religious or other reasons “)and I was merely trying to point that out. No further examples are necessary.

    It is not merely AA that calls alcoholism a disease. You can get disability for this and that requires a medical opinion.

    Again, not really necessary to clarify anymore. I merely see things in your posts that seem to contradict one another and merely throwing out the ‘to the lay person’ mantra doesn’t clear anything up.
    Alcoholism is not a medical classification - a person can ONLY be diagnosed with alcohol dependence.

    In the early 80's a huge lawsuit was brought against a treatment system for classifying a client as suffering from alcoholism. This is an indication to the employer that the person has a chronic, life long illness. This resulted in the employee termination. The lawsuit was based on the medical fact that there is no known factor to indicate a person has or has not such an illness therefore we, as Mental Health Community, are not allowed to use this terminology in any form of charting or diagnosing.

    The diagnosing has to be done by a licensed professional such as myself. It would be done through a assessment such as a MMPI or Sassi type assessing tool. A medical doctor most likely would send this person to get a legal assessment coded with the DSM IV diagnosis.

    I have never heard of a case of disability paying on alcohol addiction simply because of the remission codes. I would have to have some documentation on that. It would be in direct conflict with our scope of practice. Now someone could be disabled from the effects of alcohol dependency not from the dependency itself.

    Please understand that anything legal such as insurance or government subsidized disability would have to meet the diagnostic coding of the DSM IV - Its a diagnostic book - you can look it up on the web. The diagnostic code for alcohol dependency 303.9 alcohol dependence.

    http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/_m...ete_tables.htm
    Texas Has The Death Penalty - We Use It!:biggrin

    Last Year They Introduced Legislation That Would Expedite The Appeals Process If There Were 3 or More Witnesses To The Crime

    While Other States Are fighting To Keep The Death Penalty Out
    Texas Is Putting In An EXPRESS LANE!!
    Ron White:rockon

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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    Ok, this is gonna set the cat amongst the pigeons!

    If we were all truly honest with ourselves we are all bisexual. It is only our social moral code that causes us to become straight.

    Some of you use the word deviant like it’s a bad thing. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with being deviant within the context of homosexuality.

    I am going to come at this from a bisexual POV because this is our true state. Homosexuality and heterosexuality are simply extremes of this.

    There is no consensus on this issue at all. In addition, any studies or research done has been done on homosexuality in comparison to heterosexuality. Bisexuality has been largely ignored (or lumped into homosexuality) because to include it would blur the clear-cut distinctions researchers hope to make, if not cast doubts on their findings altogether.

    • "It would encourage clearer thinking on these matters if persons were not characterized as hetereosexual or homosexual, but as individuals who have had certain amounts of heterosexual experience and certain amounts of homosexual experience. Instead of using these terms as substantives which stand for persons, or even as adjectives to describe persons, they may better be used to describe the nature of the overt sexual relations, or of the stimuli to which an individual erotically responds." - Alfred Kinsey
    I really do love a women that gives good oratory......For those that dont understand the word oratory....because clearly there are some lol,


    or·a·to·ry
    1. The art of public speaking.
    2. Eloquence or skill in making speeches to the public.
    3. Public speaking marked by the use of overblown rhetoric.

    ...................................Just so theres no ambiguity.........wouldn't like to commit the crime of ambiguity...!

  3. #43
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    Ok, this is gonna set the cat amongst the pigeons!

    If we were all truly honest with ourselves we are all bisexual. It is only our social moral code that causes us to become straight.

    Some of you use the word deviant like it’s a bad thing. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with being deviant within the context of homosexuality.

    I am going to come at this from a bisexual POV because this is our true state. Homosexuality and heterosexuality are simply extremes of this.

    There is no consensus on this issue at all. In addition, any studies or research done has been done on homosexuality in comparison to heterosexuality. Bisexuality has been largely ignored (or lumped into homosexuality) because to include it would blur the clear-cut distinctions researchers hope to make, if not cast doubts on their findings altogether.
    Hey chicky !!!!! I knew this would get your attention!!! :tongue:

    You know what? I really dont disagree with you. Now here is the question. If we look at sex as a "mood altering experience" then the potential for abuse or dependency would have to be a posibility?

    I think we spend way to much time on the "who" you sleep with and not near enough time on how many and how often under what circumstances.

    I would really be interrested in these studies and what they might indicate.
    Texas Has The Death Penalty - We Use It!:biggrin

    Last Year They Introduced Legislation That Would Expedite The Appeals Process If There Were 3 or More Witnesses To The Crime

    While Other States Are fighting To Keep The Death Penalty Out
    Texas Is Putting In An EXPRESS LANE!!
    Ron White:rockon

  4. #44
    CVal
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    Michele, I agree with your premise to a certain extent. I've long thought of the differences on a continuum. At one end is the extreme heterosexual person. At the other end is the extreme homosexual person. I believe most people are at varying points between.

  5. #45
    Member Michele's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    You know what? I really dont disagree with you. Now here is the question. If we look at
    sex as a "mood altering experience" then the potential for abuse or dependency would have to be a posibility?


    I am not sure just what you are trying to say here. Sex as a mood altering experience? Or same sex sex? What is your point?


    Michele, I agree with your premise to a certain extent. I've long thought of the differences on a continuum. At one end is the extreme heterosexual person. At the other end is the extreme homosexual person. I believe most people are at varying points between.


    Thanks CVal I appreciate your courage for saying so.
    I really do love a women that gives good oratory......For those that dont understand the word oratory....because clearly there are some lol,


    or·a·to·ry
    1. The art of public speaking.
    2. Eloquence or skill in making speeches to the public.
    3. Public speaking marked by the use of overblown rhetoric.

    ...................................Just so theres no ambiguity.........wouldn't like to commit the crime of ambiguity...!

  6. #46
    Member Michele's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    In your world maybe but in the mental health world a 45 year old man having a sexual relationship with a 17 year old boy, asking him to be dishonest in the attempt to hide the act, demonstrates criminal behavior and activity. I worked the area of Minneapolis that the "of age" boys worked for drugs and a place to live. I've seen the devastation of the so called homosexual lifestyle. These weren't nasty, dirty old men, that solicited these boys. The were business men in 3 piece suits. 17,18 these are kids but again the desire for sexual euphoria, when dysfunctional, is much like drug use. It is constant and progressive. The need to reach the euphoric high seems to always lead to young, inexperienced boys.


    You know what? I really dont disagree with you. Now here is the question. If we look at sex as a "mood altering experience" then the potential for abuse or dependency would have to be a posibility?


    I am not sure just what you are trying to say here. Sex as a mood altering experience? Or same sex sex? What is your point?


    OK so I think what you are saying is same sex sex yes? Hell Mel, isn’t all sex mood altering? I know all of mine is lol. Does this mean, sex is addictive, abusive and dysfunctional?
    I really do love a women that gives good oratory......For those that dont understand the word oratory....because clearly there are some lol,


    or·a·to·ry
    1. The art of public speaking.
    2. Eloquence or skill in making speeches to the public.
    3. Public speaking marked by the use of overblown rhetoric.

    ...................................Just so theres no ambiguity.........wouldn't like to commit the crime of ambiguity...!

  7. #47
    Member mel44's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post





    OK so I think what you are saying is same sex sex yes? Hell Mel, isn’t all sex mood altering? I know all of mine is lol. Does this mean, sex is addictive, abusive and dysfunctional?
    That is exactly what I am saying so stop now!!! No wait - .
    I am saying it has the potential as a mood altering experience. This is how we incorporate sexual addictions, gambling etc. My point is When taking this from a mental health view we can't say a mood altering experience is a predestined DNA concept. Even the person we are with can determine how our
    juju flows. Big strong built soldier - juju flows - As with chemical dependency the nature of the participation is determined by person.
    Texas Has The Death Penalty - We Use It!:biggrin

    Last Year They Introduced Legislation That Would Expedite The Appeals Process If There Were 3 or More Witnesses To The Crime

    While Other States Are fighting To Keep The Death Penalty Out
    Texas Is Putting In An EXPRESS LANE!!
    Ron White:rockon

  8. #48
    Member Michele's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    I am saying it has the potential as a mood altering experience. This is how we incorporate sexual addictions, gambling etc.


    No, this is a very controversial concept and professionals are still divided on the issue of sex addiction. But in any event, if I were to accept the concept of sex addiction (which I don’t) then it would not be confined to homosexuality which is, I think the point you are trying to make.

    My point is When taking this from a mental health view we can't say a mood altering experience is a predestined DNA concept.


    You are talking about 2 separate issues here. The first is the persons sexual orientation (some say this is at the DNA level but there is not consensus on this) the second is how they themselves deal with this orientation in their social life. Again this is not confined to homosexuality.

    Sex IS a mood altering experience for most people if they are doing it right lol.
    I really do love a women that gives good oratory......For those that dont understand the word oratory....because clearly there are some lol,


    or·a·to·ry
    1. The art of public speaking.
    2. Eloquence or skill in making speeches to the public.
    3. Public speaking marked by the use of overblown rhetoric.

    ...................................Just so theres no ambiguity.........wouldn't like to commit the crime of ambiguity...!

  9. #49
    Member mel44's Avatar
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?

    No, this is a very controversial concept and professionals are still divided on the issue of sex addiction. But in any event, if I were to accept the concept of sex addiction (which I don’t) then it would not be confined to homosexuality which is, I think the point you are trying to make.
    No I am not limiting it to homosexuality. I am saying that homosexuality is a result of desires acted on that are not in your nature but a indulgence in your desires that result in abuse and addiction to the act of homosexual act. Now the difficult part is love. Love can develop that is natural and worthy of commitment. This leaves the partners in a dilemma. Abuse of sex act vs love for the partner. So we get suicide, depression continued sex seeking behavior.

    .
    You are talking about 2 separate issues here. The first is the persons sexual orientation (some say this is at the DNA level but there is not consensus on this) the second is how they themselves deal with this orientation in their social life. Again this is not confined to homosexuality
    I agree I don't think there is a sexual orientation. There is sex, sexual abuse and sexual dependency.

    Sex IS a mood altering experience for most people if they are doing it right lol.
    Absolutely
    Texas Has The Death Penalty - We Use It!:biggrin

    Last Year They Introduced Legislation That Would Expedite The Appeals Process If There Were 3 or More Witnesses To The Crime

    While Other States Are fighting To Keep The Death Penalty Out
    Texas Is Putting In An EXPRESS LANE!!
    Ron White:rockon

  10. #50
    axscntU8_Dpstv
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    Re: Homosexuality & Morality - Conflict of Terms!?


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