Page 1 of 26 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 255

Thread: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

  1. #1
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ft Leonard Wood MO
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    As a Military Police Officer, my responsibility is to enforce all rules and regulations aboard the base which I am currently stationed. On a day to day basis, whether in a patrol car, or standing as a sentry at one of the gates, I am exposed to military and non-military violations of these rules and regulations.

    Many regulations Marines are ordered to abide by may seem trivial in nature. One of these regulations I would like to point out is the proper liberty attire policy outlined in MCO P10120.28. If you read the order, (which all NCO's and unit leaders should), it outlines exactly what is authorized and not authorized to wear while on liberty or leave as a United State's Marine.

    Many Marines in this era are not too fond of property liberty attire regulations, and actively display this. Marines attempt to come aboard the base wearing jeans with tears and holes in them. Marines wear white t-shirts, wife-beaters, earrings, baggy trousers with no belt, base ball caps canted to the side, or have no shave. When this happens, if they have the means to correct themselves, such as putting on a different shirt, or a belt, or fixing their baseball cap, we'll generally let them off with a warning. If it's a violation that cannot be fixed there on the spot, the Marine is issued an MOR (Minor Offense Report), and ordered to report to his/her 1stSgt or SgtMaj. the following day to explain why they were dressed the way they were.

    What is amazing about this process is watching the Marine's reaction to being reprimanded, or being asked in a professional manner to fix him/her-self. More times than not, the Marine cops an attitude, and looks at the Military Police like THEY are the ones that are wrong. This reaction is difficult to comprehend, since the example and teaching of proper liberty attire is introduced as early as boot camp, and then re-enforced by units and Marine Corps instillations once the Marines hit the fleet. Every Marine Corps instillation I've visited has posters with picture examples of improper liberty attire placed outside of Marine Corps exchanges and other establishments located on the base. One would think the message is getting out there, but is it?

    This next part is probably going to open a can of worms, but it needs to be addressed. While standing with the other gate sentries on a night of duty, we engaged in a conversation about proper liberty attire. I personally brought up the issue of female Marines and their liberty attire. After discussing the issue, we realized that none of us really knew the property liberty attire policy or regulations for female Marines. On a continual basis we would see couples drive up to the gate, with the female passenger in the vehicle dressed in a very immodest or revealing manner. It would always surprise us to discover that she was a United States Marine. From our first impression, she could have been a dependent wife, or a girlfriend. In my personal opinion, there is something wrong with this. If a male Marine is able to be distinguished out in town as being a Marine by his haircut or his liberty attire (provided he's wearing proper liberty attire), why is it that a female Marine is not? Before the retaliation begins, I will give you a perfect example in regards to what I write.

    The same night of our conversation, we had a female Gunnery Sergeant drive up to the gate. I asked her where she was coming from, and she informed me she was coming from a bar out in town. While talking to her, I couldn't help but notice her attire. She was wearing a tube top, and very short shorts with high heels. I couldn't help but think to myself, "There's no way she's a gunny." Instantly my respect for her as a woman and a Marine dropped. When asked if she knew the proper liberty attire regulations for female Marines, or Marines in general, she became very offended, and explained to us that female Marines are different than male Marines. She said that male Marines are recognizable out in town because of our hair cuts, therefore, we should be held to a higher standard in regards to the way they dress. However, she explained that it's hard for people to spot a female Marine because there's really nothing that distinguishes her from any other female, and therefore, it really doesn't matter what they wear. She summed up her argument with, "I'm a Gunnery Sergeant. I've been in the Marine Corps for 14 years, so I'll wear whatever I want."

    For the remainder of the night, every female Marine that drove through the gate, I would stop and ask them if they knew the proper liberty attire regulations for female Marines. Some of them were dressed in ways that would make you blush, and others were dressed in a modest manner. Imagine my surprise when none of them knew.

    After a bit of research, here's the conclusion: there is no liberty attire regulations for female Marines. There are simply proper liberty attire regulations for Marines. Here is an excerpt from the order:

    "Marines are associated and identified with the Marine Corps in and out of uniform, and when on or off duty. Therefore, when civilian clothing is worn, Marines will ensure that their dress and personal appearance are conservative and commensurate with the high standards traditionally associated with the Marine Corps." MCO P10120.28 PAR 1005 CH 5 (a).

    The important thing to remember here is that we are Marines. We set the standard for others to emulate. We are told on a continual basis that it doesn't matter whether we are male or female; we're all Marines. If this is the case, then we should all be held to the same standard, and that standard should be enforced. If a male Marine is recognized on liberty as being a Marine, there should be something that sets a female Marine apart from other females. We as NCO's and unit leaders need to understand the impact of we make when we choose to dress in an inappropriate manner. What happens when a junior Marine goes out to a club on liberty, and runs across his/her NCO or SNCO at the same club? What happens when he/she sees her/him dressed in a way that is sexually suggestive and immodest in nature? They will never look at that NCO or SNCO the same way, or with the same respect again, because they are seeing parts of their bodies that our usually covered in uniform.

    In short, if you wouldn't wear it at the chow-hall, the exchange, church, or on base in front of your command, you shouldn't be wearing it out in town, in a nightclub, or in a bar.

    I'd have to disagree with the Gunnery Sergeant I mentioned earlier. Marines are Marines, Gunnery Sergeant. How long we have been in, the rank on our collar, and whether we are females or males does not change the fact there are rules in regulations which we are expected to abide by. Especially if we are in a leadership position where we are supposed to set the example for our junior Marines to emulate.
    It's time to stand up for what is right NCOs. Even if it is unpopular. The Marine Corps is not a popularity contest. It's an fighting organization steeped in pride and tradition. We are living up to the legacy of those that have passed before us on the battlefront. Let's not lose that discipline and legacy back here in the garrison. Semper Fidelis.

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    She was wearing short shorts....wait a minute, isn't that what you guys wear when you do PT? Those itty-bitty green shorts? She was wearing a tube top....so, oh my gawd, her shoulders weren't covered? I'm sorry, but she had a point with what she was saying about a male Marine being blatantly obvious, whereas a female Marine wouldn't be. I understand the Marines are all about high standards, so is every other branch, but sheesh.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Global
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    You are the kind of guy who wears short khaki shorts with a webbed belt and his polo tucked in with mandals, aren't you?

    Quit being such a tool. They aren't looking at you like you are wrong, they are looking at you thinking "Wow, I haven't met a toolbag like this in a while!"

    An attractive woman in a tube top and short shorts makes me blush? Maybe something else, but certainly not blush.

    This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why nobody likes MP's.

  4. #4
    Mestisa
    Guest

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Marines obviously have higher standards when it comes to dress and appearance. If there was a group of servicemen in civilian clothes, two branches would be easy to pick out. Marine and Air Force. Marines just because they carry themselves that way. There's a certain demeanor. Air Force, because the muffin top would be hard to miss.

    I will say that it's hard to identify ANY servicewoman in civilian clothes just because we don't have as many restrictions as the guys...and it is true that some females go completely overboard when it comes to civilian clothes. It's like that across the different branches.

  5. #5
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ft Leonard Wood MO
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC_8156 View Post
    You are the kind of guy who wears short khaki shorts with a webbed belt and his polo tucked in with mandals, aren't you?

    Quit being such a tool. They aren't looking at you like you are wrong, they are looking at you thinking "Wow, I haven't met a toolbag like this in a while!"

    An attractive woman in a tube top and short shorts makes me blush? Maybe something else, but certainly not blush.

    This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why nobody likes MP's.
    Ok, a couple of things here... One, I am not the guy that wears the khaki shorts with a webbed belt and a polo shirt. ( And you repeated 'webbed belt' twice, genious.) Anyway, like I was saying, I'm your average guy that wears jeans, a t-shirt, a belt (not webbed) and boots or tennis shoes. I am not an idiot... obviously, I am not going to dress the same way your father does, but I choose to dress in a way so that I am above reproach.
    The way you talk leads me to believe that you are a boot, or that you are young man. Rather than read EVERYTHING I wrote in that article, you chose to pinpoint certain areas and only respond to them, while overlooking other areas of the article alltogether. You refused to have an objective outlook about this. I figure the only reason you have nothing but negative to say about it is because YOU are one of the Marines I am referring to.
    Let's take your outlook on it, and just let Marines wear whatever the hell they want. It doesn't hurt anything right? I mean, since doing the right thing is actually being a toolbag, I guess we should all stop doing the right thing. Or maybe I'm just a toolbag by your definition. Got an idea for you... let's go ask a Gunnery Sergeant, 1st Sgt, or MSgt, SgtMaj, or MGySgt what they think.
    Or we can just say this is all trivial, because YOU say it is, and just forget about it. We'll let this slide and then some other rule or order, or regulation will come down the line, and it'll seem trivial, so we'll say Screw that too...
    Pretty soon, all tradition and pride goes out the window... Congratulations... we're the Army now. Thanks.

  6. #6
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ft Leonard Wood MO
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimLaw View Post
    She was wearing short shorts....wait a minute, isn't that what you guys wear when you do PT? Those itty-bitty green shorts? She was wearing a tube top....so, oh my gawd, her shoulders weren't covered? I'm sorry, but she had a point with what she was saying about a male Marine being blatantly obvious, whereas a female Marine wouldn't be. I understand the Marines are all about high standards, so is every other branch, but sheesh.
    That is the prescribed PT gear, and it's getting ready to change to that running suit anyway.

    "If a male Marine is recognized on liberty as being a Marine, there should be something that sets a female Marine apart from other females. We as NCO's and unit leaders need to understand the impact of we make when we choose to dress in an inappropriate manner. What happens when a junior Marine goes out to a club on liberty, and runs across his/her NCO or SNCO at the same club? What happens when he/she sees her/him dressed in a way that is sexually suggestive and immodest in nature? They will never look at that NCO or SNCO the same way, or with the same respect again, because they are seeing parts of their bodies that our usually covered in uniform.

    In short, if you wouldn't wear it at the chow-hall, the exchange, church, or on base in front of your command, you shouldn't be wearing it out in town, in a nightclub, or in a bar."

  7. #7
    Senior Member E4RUMOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ft Leonard Wood MO
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Thank you for the mature response. You made an argument, but you were also objective as well. I understand that it's harder for females to be recognized as being in the Armed Forces. Maybe part of the statement I'm making is that it wouldn't be so hard to be recognize them if they were held to the same standards as their male counterparts. Their dress style would set them apart. For a group of individuals that stress so much about wanting to be treated the same as males, and wanting the same amount of respect, how does it look if the majority of males see examples like this where females are not held to the same standard... because of their sex. Now where's the equal opportunity?

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Global
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Quote Originally Posted by E4RUMOR View Post
    Ok, a couple of things here... One, I am not the guy that wears the khaki shorts with a webbed belt and a polo shirt. ( And you repeated 'webbed belt' twice, genious.) Anyway, like I was saying, I'm your average guy that wears jeans, a t-shirt, a belt (not webbed) and boots or tennis shoes. I am not an idiot... obviously, I am not going to dress the same way your father does, but I choose to dress in a way so that I am above reproach.
    The way you talk leads me to believe that you are a boot, or that you are young man. Rather than read EVERYTHING I wrote in that article, you chose to pinpoint certain areas and only respond to them, while overlooking other areas of the article alltogether. You refused to have an objective outlook about this. I figure the only reason you have nothing but negative to say about it is because YOU are one of the Marines I am referring to.
    Let's take your outlook on it, and just let Marines wear whatever the hell they want. It doesn't hurt anything right? I mean, since doing the right thing is actually being a toolbag, I guess we should all stop doing the right thing. Or maybe I'm just a toolbag by your definition. Got an idea for you... let's go ask a Gunnery Sergeant, 1st Sgt, or MSgt, SgtMaj, or MGySgt what they think.
    Or we can just say this is all trivial, because YOU say it is, and just forget about it. We'll let this slide and then some other rule or order, or regulation will come down the line, and it'll seem trivial, so we'll say Screw that too...
    Pretty soon, all tradition and pride goes out the window... Congratulations... we're the Army now. Thanks.
    Yeah. I have an opinon on this because I've been in the Marine Corps long enough to be irritated to death with boots like you who don't know the first thing about operational readiness, and have the sack to stand at the gate and tell my Marines that you are going to write them up for having their hat backwards.

    I'm older and far senior to you, so that card fell short. And I didn't use webbed belt twice.

    My point is, you need to relax. Bad. Do a couple of deployments, and you will see how trivial proper libery attire is. It has always been something that has been a waste of time, and hopefully once the prohibition on sleeve tattoos lifts, we will see the liberty attire relax. Playing the "we'll be just like the Army lol" card is pretty lame too, hate to break it to you but our mission and theirs isn't all that different these days. Our success is because of our training and operational focus that is above theirs, not because we don't let Lance Coolies wear sideburns.

    Until then, I'll be in board shorts and sandals at the grocery store, and I'll wear a hat backwards this weekend just for you...OH NO!

  9. #9
    USSConstellation
    Guest

    Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC_8156 View Post
    Yeah. I have an opinon on this because I've been in the Marine Corps long enough to be irritated to death with boots like you who don't know the first thing about operational readiness, and have the sack to stand at the gate and tell my Marines that you are going to write them up for having their hat backwards.

    I'm older and far senior to you, so that card fell short. And I didn't use webbed belt twice.

    My point is, you need to relax. Bad. Do a couple of deployments, and you will see how trivial proper libery attire is. It has always been something that has been a waste of time, and hopefully once the prohibition on sleeve tattoos lifts, we will see the liberty attire relax. Playing the "we'll be just like the Army lol" card is pretty lame too, hate to break it to you but our mission and theirs isn't all that different these days. Our success is because of our training and operational focus that is above theirs, not because we don't let Lance Coolies wear sideburns.

    Until then, I'll be in board shorts and sandals at the grocery store, and I'll wear a hat backwards this weekend just for you...OH NO!

    You can tell he has never deployed and has nothing better to do than stand at a gate and instead of making sure terrorists etc don't get on base and drunk drivers are caught, he wants to write paperwork on Marines for stupid shit. Glad to know what MPs at the gate really care about.
    He does need a couple deployments under his belt, he is the boot.
    The no sleeve tattoo rule is stupid as hell and I won't be in long enough to see if they do end up changing it. I am out of here in 6 months

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Smile Re: Proper Liberty Attire for ALL Marines?

    "In short, if you wouldn't wear it at the chow-hall, the exchange, church, or on base in front of your command, you shouldn't be wearing it out in town, in a nightclub, or in a bar. "

    So Cpl, your telling me that you wear church clothes to the club? Well, have fun with that buddy because if thats the case then yes, you do wear khaki shorts, polo shirts and mandals. BOOT.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •