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Thread: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

  1. #31
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    Well, you can call them conclusory if you want. I call them personal observations based on 27 years of intricate interaction with the federal judicial system. By the way, the most conclusory comment made on this whole thread is that federal judges are all corrupt and not accountable to anyone. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many are among the most honorable people I know, including the judge I mentioned who took a $800K annual pay cut to serve the public in the position.

    On the issue of accountability, I pointed out the judge in Houston accused of sexual misconduct. There are many others. Several years ago there was a judge in Fort Worth who was barred from hearing any cases for a year because he mistreated attorneys and witnesses. In New Orleans there is a judge facing impeachment because he took an expense paid junket to Las Vegas for his son's bachelors party. Further, they are held accountable with their decisions -- through the mechanism of an appeal.

    Maybe things are different in the 10th Circuit, but there is a lot of accountability in the 5th Circuit (as the above examples show) when judges acts in an unethical way.

  2. #32
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    You state that the accountability comes from the mechanism of the appeal. That was certainly not the case when we filed an appeal with the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. Although it was clear that we had been denied all due procees, that the district court judge had used every procedural trick he had to rule against us and that the law clearly supported our legal argument the panel upheld his decision. When we requested an en banc review it was denied. Not one single judge on the Tenth Circuit voted to rehear the case. No, these judges clearly protect one another. I'm sure you are right that the majority of federal judges are ethical and decent but when they turn a blind eye to corruption within their ranks then they have failed the American public. I call it corruption. You can call it what you want. But it certainly appears to be institutionalized.

    The argument you make seems to be that if we don't give an immediate raise to the judiciary then only the ultra rich will agree to become judges. (You earlier expressed great admiration for a corporate attorney who took an 800K per year salary cut to become a federal judge.) You also explained that judicial appointments are really nothing more that political patronage and it has little to do with merit. That is likely very true and every American should be appalled. Clearly it is time to hold the judiciary (as well as the Senate Judiciary Committee that confirms these judges) to a higher standard.

    I would be interested in hearing from others who are connected to the federal judicial system and might have some perspective. In fact, probably everyone who is following this thread would.

  3. #33
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by bombsquadron6 View Post
    You simply don’t want to debate my central premise. Federal judges have become arrogant and elitist. They have become the protectors of big business and average Americans are being harmed. What happened to us in federal court was not unique. We were denied all due process by federal judges who were positively smug about it. .
    At risk of getting involved in this very wordy debate and not having read all of it.

    Have you considered that you may be getting what you pay for?

  4. #34
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    At risk of getting involved in this very wordy debate and not having read all of it.

    Have you considered that you may be getting what you pay for?
    Measure Man,

    You mean… WE… right Measure Man… I mean we are getting what WE pay for right… the salary of the Federal judges is coming out of the tax payer’s dollar, right? bombsquadron6 & Sensible are debating the issues of Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase. We the taxpayers are the ones footing their salary, one way or the other.

    Now when it comes to getting… (is the bang worth the buck) that is an entirely different subject, especially with some of the higher positions held by our judges. I think it is more than just our job to challenge those in these positions within the judiciary, it’s our duty, as citizens.

    Sensible,

    First I should point out that forum guest bombsquadron6, has identified herself on the forum profile, full name no, but with a little research I am quite sure we could tie a last name to Lisa. Now on the other hand kind sir, I will give you credit in that you did finally registered as Sensible, that sir is all we know about yourself, other than the information provided in your posts, while your position may be sensible, it does not make cents.

    The judicial misconduct as listed and so well addressed in post # 3, would be an indication to me that lawyers such as your self should clearly be making attempts to rectify such injustices as opposed to giving them pay raises, the hand writing is pretty much on the wall that these justices pay is derived by other means other than the federal pay system… which suggest these judges are born to wealth, or have acquired their fortunes by other means. In any case, I am motivated by a sense of justice and fundamental fairness; I simply cannot bring myself to understand how you or I could honestly ask that, the members of this forum, or the service member (which earn far much less, and endanger their lives in doing so) to support your claim of fair pay, to the federal judges, when we read about so much injustice in the federal judges or any judges as far as that goes. I mean these justices are suppose to be the top in the field with regard to honor and practice of fair play and justice. Just exactly how do you suggest reform of the judiciary (keeping in mind here, are we are asking the fox to guard the chicken house) when it is obvious they are UN willing to administer reform within their ranks? I seriously dought that Rand is going to conduct any research or studies to determine the corruption of our judges, whether they be… federal judges, article III judges, district/circuit or (SCOTUS) Supreme Court of The United States-- judges. Without the spin kind sir, what say you?... hawk

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  5. #35
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    How do I suggest reform for the judiciary? Honestly, that is a tough one. From a constitutional prespective, it would be like asking Congress to reform itself because they are equal in terms of status as far as the constitution is concerned. The framers intended these men and women to be tremendously independent of outside influences.

    Prehaps we should look to the Constituion itself for the answer. The framers could have included other mechanisms for controlling the federal judiciary, but they did not which prehaps show that they intended that the Checks and Balances in the document would be primary way to keep the judiciary honest. In other words, the framers were relying on the Senate and the President in doing their jobs in nominating the best people for these jobs. Also, they were relying on the Senate doing its job in properly evaluating impeachment proceedings.

    The best way to achieve reform is to stop the appalling cronyism that is involved in the appointment process? I do not know for certain how that can be achieved just as I do not know how we can stop presidential candidates from spending hundreds of millions of dollars in their quest for that office. Prehaps the best place to start would to stop the practice of giving these folks the annual de facto pay cuts they have been receiving. Doing so would encourage more attorneys to seek the position. Maybe that would reduce some of the cronyism.

    The good side of this is you have to realize what it takes to be a crony of a US Senator. You have to have a lot of money! Unless you are born into great wealth (the case with the judge in Corpus Chrisit) you probably made it by being a great lawyer which means you have a talent for the law. This was the case with the judge I mentioned who took the $800K annual pay cut and several others I know.

    As a note to Lisa aka Bombsquadron, let me say this. I reiterate that I cannot really comment on your case without a full and proper evaluation of the facts and the law. It may be possible that you are so close to the case that you have tunnel vision about what was going on. I have seen many a client have such perspectives, and it is the natural response anyone would have after losing such a big case. Having said that, let me also say that I have not seen the type of corruption you allege took place in your case in the 5th Circuit.

  6. #36
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    .
    Sensible,

    I ask a question-- How do you suggest reform for the judiciary? w/o the spin... what do I get… spin after yet another spin… was it difficult? Most certainly! You mention ways in which reform would not be successful, from a constitutional perspective…including, your imposition that the Senate and the President in doing their jobs... would be hiring the best people for the job, most certainly hiring the candidate that best fits the qualifications, is a step in the right direction, it most certainly is not the answer, and I think we both understand that-- that’s not reform- that’s what I call wishful thinking. Impeachment proceedings, you are kidding here right?

    Then you go on to offer another suggestion, saying that the best way to achieve reform, is to stop the cronyism—you don’t know how to stop this, just that it is the best way?… Then sir, you ramble on to announce yet another unknown-- how can we stop presidential candidates from spending hundreds of millions of dollars in their quest for that office, and suggest that this can be eliminated by giving them a raise! Are you serious? Just how much of a pay raise would you suggest it take, to offset those hundreds of millions of dollars you so referred. Now, you want my vote for giving the judiciary a raise! You have got to be kidding me, you are going to have to do much better than that! you again make no cents...

    You are absolutely right here Sensible, I have no idea what it takes to be a good crony. As I am sure you could provide all the training in that area, as for me… I am not interested. As for this being a good side or not, we will leave that up to others to decide. I am not at all impressed in your definition of what it means to be a good lawyer, I further suggest however, making great sums of money are far from any of my definitions or trademarks of being a good lawyer. Then God forbid you mention… yet again the 800K pay cut… just how on God’s green earth did our country get in such shape? And no, that is not a question! for I am sure that would result in yet other questions, equally as interesting.

    Sir, I find nowhere, Lisa aka Bombsquadron6 (you still don’t have her screen name correct) asked for your guidance in her case, if I were Lisa… I would consider myself very lucky and fortunate, in that she did not end up in jail as a result of your council and or legal advice, not even to mention being represented by you. After some of your comments regarding my post, I ask who is in the maze of tunnel vision. If you want my vote, you are going to have to earn it, and not spin your way to bliss…

    I ask again, How do you suggest reform for the judiciary? Respectfully…. hawk

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  7. #37
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    The reform must come from within the judiciary. If they are unwilling to police themselves then no amount of legislation will change a thing. If the Supreme Court decides to take a stand and hold federal judges to the highest ethical standards then yes, Americans should consider a pay raise. But that has not happened. Americans can only demand reform. The judiciary itself must implement it. Perhaps some of the readers of this thread might consider sending this link to their representatives in Congress. Whether or not you agree with me is not the point. This debate has been informative and both sides presented their cases, well I hope. Thank you to all who have stayed with this and my best wishes go out to every man and woman serving this country in the military.
    Lisa Burke

    Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
    Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947

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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    .
    Ma’ma,

    while my last post may have hinted toward a little sarcasm…
    by nature that is not me… i was just frustrated…
    getting a straight answer is well… most difficult…
    so please consider my humble request out of ignorance…
    you told us where it must come from…
    my question remains…
    how do you suggest reform for the judiciary?
    how will we the people recognize this when it happens…
    i did catch the demand part as well…
    Or..
    if you will, what will or should be the judiciary approach look like…
    how will they accomplish the major undertaking?

    thankyou both for your professionalism in presenting your view point’s…
    happy trails… hawk

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    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

  9. #39
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    The mechanisms are already in place. Each circuit court has a judicial council that reviews judicial misconduct complaints. The councils are made up of other judges from within the same circuit as the judge being complained about so there is an obvious conflict of interest. They all know each other and are often friends. The councils should be made up of attorneys, judges or law professors who have no contact with those being complained about. As you can guess, the current system rarely finds that complaints have any merit. But the best and most effective way would be for the U.S. Supreme Court to start policing the judiciary. Cases such as ours, in which the district court judge committed egregious abuses, and the circuit court of appeals allowed it, should be flagged by the Supreme Court and used as a warning to other judges. While Chief Justice Roberts has spent much time demanding a substantial raise for the judiciary, he spends little time addressing the need for an ethical judiciary or enforcing those ethics. Reform starts at the top. As a quick footnote, we have used this case over and over to demonstrate that the judiciary is out of control and must be reformed before a raise can be considered. You may be sure many people in Congress have looked it over and no one has disputed our claim that is was gross abuse of the judicial process. Further, the district court judge resigned soon after. All we can do is be informed politically and make it clear to our representatives in Congress that we do not tolerate dishonesty and corruption by public servants. They actually do listen to their constituents, especially now. It is an election year, the economy is tanking, there is a seemingly endless war and Americans have a very, very low opinion of Congress. Contact them!
    Lisa Burke

    Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
    Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947

  10. #40
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    Re: Judicial Salary Increase v. Military Salary Increase

    .
    ok, now we are getting somewhere, if truly the most effective way for policing the judiciary is through the (SCOTUS) Supreme Court of The United States then why would we (the people) accept anything less than, which would be undesirable, as you have so stated, anything else would simply not make any sense.

    We share similar interest in that we seek resolve to issues of the day that affect our great nation and our peoples. While I am far from mastering the English language, like you, I/we (I have another young lady that is assisting me, however she is currently with her b/f friend that is going back to Iraq for yet a 4th tour) normally get their attention, through correspondence. Yes, I am sure my Congressman and Senators just love receiving my letters, and emails regarding such subjects, as I will mention later on in this post. I on many occasions have collected many signatures in support of these issues, and very much agree we truly can make a difference. I comment you on your plight, and if there is anything I can do to assist you please let me know, via E-mail, or PM.

    That issue being (PTSD/TBI) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and or Traumatic Brain Injuries sustained our service members, while in Combat or otherwise. Simply put… our service members are either not getting appropriate care, or the disease/disorder is being all but ignored, in that adequate facilities are not available, including properly trained personnel, or those affected are being diagnosed with something entirely different, in order to dissolve the members benefits for these disorders. It is my opinion that all our Military Branches is in effect brushing this under the rug or not giving it the attention it deserves, due to the ever increasing demands the war effort has put on our fine young men and women, who have served 3—4—and even 5 tours in the far East such as Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Many Senators, Congressman and on up the COC are turning their heads. I have heard so many debates on the floor, in the house it is not funny, they have all but discussed the damn thing into the next century, while those affected are falling through the crack, ending their lives through suicide, or taking a life or lives with them due to not receiving proper medical attention. Headlines through our country are full of such stories. I have documented these stories here on this forum, through the many--- journals, magazine and newspaper articles, and nationally recognized studies, such as the Rand Research Origination, to and including the many postings here on this forum, feel free to visit this thread if you so desire, the thread is titled…. Re: "Is Uncle Sam Brushing this Under the Carpet?"
    http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/s...00132&posted=1 ...hawk


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    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

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