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Thread: PT in the Army

  1. #41
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    Re: PT in the Army

    There are very few people that don't meet weight that are actually physical fit. Just because they can pass a PT test does not mean that they are fit

    Kinda says it all right here doesn't it??? If a PT test does not determine if a Soldier is "fit" then what the hell was it designed to determine????

  2. #42
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    Re: PT in the Army

    PT is very important in the Army.
    I've never failed a PT, I was in shape before the military. And I'm one of those skinny people so the only way I could fail height and weigh would be by being under weight.
    That said the standards could be made better for height and weight.
    But PT tests should be harder. I understand people have different body types. But down-range that doesn't matter. I'm 5'7"and weigh 140lb soaking wet; if another soldier goes down it doesn't matter if they are 7' and 400lb I should be able at the very least to drag their ass to safety.
    I understand body type, age and sex play a factor to what a person is actually capable of. But I've seen male soldiers in 18-21 age group who I don't think could drag my ass. Life is not fair. I'm a small guy I have to work harder to accomplish the same as a soldier who's 6' and 180-200lbs and soldiers smaller than me have to work harder, just as the people whose body types are opposite of mine, heavier big boned people have to work hard to cut weight to meet the standard. There should be one standard and your score above it should then be based on your age, sex and body type.
    Life's an endless march that you walk alone;
    might as well enjoy the view and take the long road home

  3. #43
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by CommunityEditor View Post
    Other services are revamping the requirements and expectations, but what about the Army? Are changes needed? If so, what would you recommend?
    I think we should do what the Marines do - a 'combat fitness test' and an APFT. The combat fitness test would have exercises related to fitness and then still have the PT test. Or shorten our 2 mile run to 1.5 miles. I agree though - nowhere in Iraq did I run 2 miles, do p/u or s/u except on a PT test.

  4. #44
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Marines do a three mile run and?

    Sometimes its the ability to have good cardio respiratory fitness and depending on your mission and location; its best to be in good physical condition.

  5. #45
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jay_ellis04 View Post
    While the current APFT is not in itself entirely flawed, in my honest opinion it is a little outdated and doesn't focus on the current missions that are seen on a day to day basis. As a veteran of OIF, no where did we run 2 miles. No where did we do pushups. No where did we do situps. As these are all great baselines in order to detemine a Soldier's fitness, I think a few things should be added, while keeping the old events the same or revamping them a little.

    For instance, a 100m sprint event should be introduced. Many of the firefights/actions in today's battlefields involving urban operations require Soldiers under fire to sprint from cover to cover, covering shorter distances at faster speeds.

    Introduce the pull-up. I don't know how many times while conducting raids, we were required to scale walls and other obstacles where pushups did absolutely nothing for those particular muscle groups.

    I don't think that we should introduce something as ridiculous as the Marine CFT (I have a brother in the Marines and I work with them and they are of the same mind set), as it is absolutely unnecessary in its entire structure. I do, however, think that we should add to the current APFT.

    Lastly, I think that the male/female standards should be drawn closer together. I say this upon the simple basis that both male and female soldiers are required to accomplish the same missions, so therefore, why not have one set standard, or one very close to it, accurately reflecting the requirements of our Soldiers, not based upon gender. Bullets don't discriminate, why should we?
    I do agree that the female pushup minimum should be increased (I'm a female soldier) but the reason why we are so different is that fact - men and women ON AVERAGE are built differently. There is no way for us to be 100% equal because we aren't built the same. However that is not to say there aren't women who can max the male standards and males who can barely pass the male standards or some who can't even pass the female run standard. Situps are exactly the same between the two just pushups and run are different but again the minimum is just that - the least you have to do. No one says that you have to ONLY do the 60/60/60. That's just a standard - if you can excel above that then you do. But everyone is built different.

    But we do need to change something because I'm only 28 and sometimes I feel like I'm in a 50 year old's body. I never had back and shoulder problems until about four years ago. Then I didn't get checked out right away because I'm stubborn and the whole idea that if you get a profile you're "shamming" doesn't help matters. But just because you're taller doesn't mean you run faster. Some people are naturally good runners or naturally athletic while others have to work at it. Before I had my back issues, I ran a decent run for a female (16-17 min 2mile) and now since my back and profiles and recovery I'm trying to get back to at least an 18-19. Age doesn't help some people.

    Everyone is different but I agree that the way our PT test is set up doesn't help anyone.

  6. #46
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by SWOUSA View Post
    Marines do a three mile run and?

    Sometimes its the ability to have good cardio respiratory fitness and depending on your mission and location; its best to be in good physical condition.
    Humans aren't built to run a continues 2+ miles anymore. Not since we had to stop chasing our food and turned into couch potatoes.

  7. #47
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by NoQuarter View Post
    Brother I've got to say your are pretty well off base on just about everything you said. First, every soldier is an infantry man first. If you are not physically fit you stand a better chance of running out of stamina. Once that happens you are done for in the macro sense of war. As for the number of SNCO that chose to leave the Army because they cant work outside their MOS, it has to be statistically minuet. And besides that the amount a soldier has contributed and been paid is much larger than what the Army spent on their higher education. And their experience and expertise in that field is invaluable to the soldiers under that SNCO. If that person retires, usually there is someone somewhere ready to fill the void.

    As far as the height and weight standard you are way off. The idea is a measure of overall fitness and if you read the FM covering the army weight control program, self discipline. There are very few people that don't meet weight that are actually physical fit. Just because they can pass a PT test does not mean that they are fit. And soldiers are not forced out because they don't meet weight one time. They have the opportunity to correct it. If they can't or won't they probably don't belong among the ranks.

    The one place you are the closest to being right is the Army's inability to recognize intelligence. That has been and will be a drag on the force in the future. Individuals that are able to think outside the box and on different lines are usually marginalized and labeled themselves as individuals. Sometimes it takes a change to the pattern of thinking to produce results, not the same beating of the same "war drum." But perhaps the demonstration put on by Gen Petraeus will change some attitudes.
    The Army has a very unrealistic standard of weight. However, let's be glad our weight/waist do not factor into our PT test like the Air Force. They can pass every event but if they fail their waist taping they fail their PT test. If we fail height/weight and tape, you just get flagged for being overweight but you still passed your PT test if you get the minimum score or above.

  8. #48
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Hey guys,

    I hate to open a can of worms here, but I work both ends of the string. I train soldiers, I train other soldiers to be extremely fit, and I put people back together in the wounded warrior units. I see the problems from many angles. I get a soldier who wants to be SF but can't even breathe right, let alone use proper body mechanics. I get soldiers who are severely wounded because their chain of command knows only one thing: "Do more push-ups".

    Instead of making this post really long, I will just say that the Army needs to seriously re-evaluate what it is doing and consult the actual experts. The current model does not work and everyone knows it. They need an institution of higher learning and knowledge that trumps the idiots out there who think that the universal answer is more push-ups. I've spent an awful lot of time downrange and I never used a push-up, sit-up or 2 mile run. However, I did do a lot of pulling up, climbing, rucking, sprinting and shooting, Moving heavy equipment, mountain climbing and stair climbing. Then I spent tens of thousands of dollars getting educated and putting myself back together. The Air Force and Army never helped me in any way.

  9. #49
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Speaking of waist measurements... You have to ask yourself, if they were so concerned about fitness, why is the food so bad? And why is it that there are fast food chains on base and not a whole foods market? Hmmmm......

  10. #50
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by jay_ellis04 View Post
    That's crap and I've heard that same excuse for 13 years. I have seen female Soldiers PT circles around their male peers in ALL categories. On more than one occasion I have seen older female Soldiers in the 32-36 age scale score 300 on their PT test...in the 17-21 Male category. I've heard it time and time again. I'm sick of hearing that old rhyme.
    Yeah but not ALL of us women are PT studs just like not ALL men are PT studs. I know women who max the male standards and then some. That doesn't mean all of us can. I used to be decent at PT - then I started to get back and shoulder issues (when I was only 24 and 26) and so now I feel like I'm in the body of a 50 year old sometimes but it's not to the point where I am on a permanent profile either (not yet and hopefully never). Everyone is not the same and I agree with the post from Measure Man.

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