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Thread: PT in the Army

  1. #31
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by mchefnit View Post
    PT in the Army

    I think the Army places way too much emphasis on PT. What about your job and isn't it important to have a brain? I am very tired of "Mr. Stud Muffin" getting all the glory and he can't even function in his job. But, he can do 120 push-ups and run a mile in 5 minutes. I on the other hand am doing my job and his because he is too busy at the gym. What will Mr. Stud Muffin do in the real world? It is very hard to full up your resume when you cannot complete even simple tasks on your job without the help of others. I suppose he will impress them with the fact that he can run to the copy machine faster.
    I also think the weight standard is not a very good thing. There are many people that do not meet the height and weight standards that pass PT tests and function quite well regardless. I have seen overweight people run just as well as others. I have also seen the opposite where the weight was a problembut not very often. I have seen good individuals forced out of the Army because they could not meet the numbers. To top it all off, they get paid for it. The individual that meets the standard and passes the PT test gets a month's pay if he or she elects to get out. Something wrong with this picture, eh? I wonder if that is why so many people decide to fail the PT test or eat to their heart's content?
    Let's also consider the soldier that is in their 17th or 18th year and has completed a Bachelor's and a Master's degree. They are now bored with their current MOS and the Army has spent a ton of money on education for them. But, the good old Army will not let the soldier work outside of his or her MOS, verbotten. These are the people retiring left and right because they want to move up in the real world. The Army is throwing money out the window. Yes, they have put in an initial investment in this soldier but that was years ago. How about giving the person some on the job training and a chance to do something different? Don't get me started on the problems with the various branches. Wake up people, soldiers are not just another number. You cannot expect to put a circle into a square box and not everyone fits the same mold. How about some matching the right individual with the right job? Oh my god, did I just think outside of the box? Forgive me...I'll do some push ups......NOT!

    Brother I've got to say your are pretty well off base on just about everything you said. First, every soldier is an infantry man first. If you are not physically fit you stand a better chance of running out of stamina. Once that happens you are done for in the macro sense of war. As for the number of SNCO that chose to leave the Army because they cant work outside their MOS, it has to be statistically minuet. And besides that the amount a soldier has contributed and been paid is much larger than what the Army spent on their higher education. And their experience and expertise in that field is invaluable to the soldiers under that SNCO. If that person retires, usually there is someone somewhere ready to fill the void.

    As far as the height and weight standard you are way off. The idea is a measure of overall fitness and if you read the FM covering the army weight control program, self discipline. There are very few people that don't meet weight that are actually physical fit. Just because they can pass a PT test does not mean that they are fit. And soldiers are not forced out because they don't meet weight one time. They have the opportunity to correct it. If they can't or won't they probably don't belong among the ranks.

    The one place you are the closest to being right is the Army's inability to recognize intelligence. That has been and will be a drag on the force in the future. Individuals that are able to think outside the box and on different lines are usually marginalized and labeled themselves as individuals. Sometimes it takes a change to the pattern of thinking to produce results, not the same beating of the same "war drum." But perhaps the demonstration put on by Gen Petraeus will change some attitudes.

  2. #32
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by NoQuarter View Post
    Originally Posted by mchefnit View Post
    PT in the Army

    I think the Army places way too much emphasis on PT. What about your job and isn't it important to have a brain? I am very tired of "Mr. Stud Muffin" getting all the glory and he can't even function in his job. But, he can do 120 push-ups and run a mile in 5 minutes. I on the other hand am doing my job and his because he is too busy at the gym. What will Mr. Stud Muffin do in the real world? It is very hard to full up your resume when you cannot complete even simple tasks on your job without the help of others. I suppose he will impress them with the fact that he can run to the copy machine faster.
    I also think the weight standard is not a very good thing. There are many people that do not meet the height and weight standards that pass PT tests and function quite well regardless. I have seen overweight people run just as well as others. I have also seen the opposite where the weight was a problembut not very often. I have seen good individuals forced out of the Army because they could not meet the numbers. To top it all off, they get paid for it. The individual that meets the standard and passes the PT test gets a month's pay if he or she elects to get out. Something wrong with this picture, eh? I wonder if that is why so many people decide to fail the PT test or eat to their heart's content?
    Let's also consider the soldier that is in their 17th or 18th year and has completed a Bachelor's and a Master's degree. They are now bored with their current MOS and the Army has spent a ton of money on education for them. But, the good old Army will not let the soldier work outside of his or her MOS, verbotten. These are the people retiring left and right because they want to move up in the real world. The Army is throwing money out the window. Yes, they have put in an initial investment in this soldier but that was years ago. How about giving the person some on the job training and a chance to do something different? Don't get me started on the problems with the various branches. Wake up people, soldiers are not just another number. You cannot expect to put a circle into a square box and not everyone fits the same mold. How about some matching the right individual with the right job? Oh my god, did I just think outside of the box? Forgive me...I'll do some push ups......NOT!.

    Wow! I wish that was the case!

    The sad fact is is the Army does not place enough emphasis on PT and, as such, they are losing to the Air Force and creeping down to the Navy's level of Physical Fitness. The Times released a story about 9 months ago about obesity levels in the DoD. In this story it said how the Marine Corps leads the pack with little to no obesity.

    In years gone by, the trend was:

    USMC #1
    Army #2
    USN #3
    USAF #4

    However, in the past 2 years, the USAF has surpassed the Army in the level of troops being fit and now the Army is the second to last in the number of obese service members. Does the Army need more PT? Yes indeed ! A TON MORE!!!! TOO many fat Soldiers out there!

    Right now, the USMC is #1, followed by the USAF (#2), the USA (#3) and the Navy is last.

  3. #33
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    Re: PT in the Army

    I think the APFT is discriminatory against females. The standards are too stringent and must be adjusted for reality.

  4. #34
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Agree! Females get it easy.

  5. #35
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    Re: PT in the Army

    We should enforce the PT regs we already have. There are WAY too many fat Soldiers walking around!

    HOOAH

  6. #36
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Combat correspondent View Post

    Wow! I wish that was the case!

    The sad fact is is the Army does not place enough emphasis on PT and, as such, they are losing to the Air Force and creeping down to the Navy's level of Physical Fitness. The Times released a story about 9 months ago about obesity levels in the DoD. In this story it said how the Marine Corps leads the pack with little to no obesity.

    In years gone by, the trend was:

    USMC #1
    Army #2
    USN #3
    USAF #4

    However, in the past 2 years, the USAF has surpassed the Army in the level of troops being fit and now the Army is the second to last in the number of obese service members. Does the Army need more PT? Yes indeed ! A TON MORE!!!! TOO many fat Soldiers out there!

    Right now, the USMC is #1, followed by the USAF (#2), the USA (#3) and the Navy is last.
    Where did you get these stats? The last stats I saw in writing stated that the AF had 52% of its force overweight. That was printed in the AF times a few months back. The Army is still #2 behind the USMC, but we are going down hill fast!

  7. #37
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    Re: PT in the Army

    What’s actually been left out of this entire discussion is the OTHER HALF of Physical Fitness-Diet and Nutrition. Too often the Army is reactive when it comes to this, addressing the issue only after a failed tape.

    Staring in BCT and continuing thorough a soldier’s acreer, the Army needs to have classes on making the right choices, how metabolism works (we should ALL be eating 5-6 times a day), and assisting soldiers on preparing meals at home, shopping choices, etc.

    I’m not saying DFACs stop serving burgers and biscuits and gravy. Again, the Army needs to educate and train its soldiers of all ranks to better evaluate the choices before them.

  8. #38
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    Re: PT in the Army

    Quote Originally Posted by mchefnit View Post
    PT in the Army

    I think the Army places way too much emphasis on PT. What about your job and isn't it important to have a brain? I am very tired of "Mr. Stud Muffin" getting all the glory and he can't even function in his job....Oh my god, did I just think outside of the box? Forgive me...I'll do some push ups......NOT!
    The above individual is just distraught that he hasn't passed his tape since he was an E-1...

    Honestly, I think that the current APFT standards are fine, save for what others have mentioned: when performing the sit-up, it is not necessary (actually, it's a hindrance and a strain) to put the hands behind the head. It is a lot more comfortable, and injury-reducing, to cross the arms over the chest. Also, a pullup standard should be implemented. It was sad to see soldiers attempt the pullup when my unit did rotational PT. Some soldiers, of both sex, couldn't even do one without having their legs supported. Also, as a soldier going through my first deployment, I feel there should be a requirement for a one-mile (or thereabouts) walk with full battle rattle. There shouldn't be any timing involved; just that a soldier should complete the task. I'm of a very sleight build (5'10" 140), and I thought my shoulder was going to snap off the first time I got finished going on a patrol with all my gear on. Getting used to wearing all that gear, even if it is just for a short period of time, would at least prepare a soldier, especially one without any previous deployments, for what they will go through on a day-to-day basis outside the wire. Of course, that could just be me, since I was out for 2 years in the IRR.

  9. #39
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    Re: PT in the Army

    "Now as to standards, for example I am 6' and weigh 205, scored nearly 300 every PT test, I scored well under the body fat percentage. Now for whatever dumb reason, I was taped at every weigh in because I exceeded the Height weight standards."

    The reason is that the Height/Weight table is as old as the P.T. test itself and does not "fit" the average Soldier nowadays. If you have a Soldier that is a weightlifter, former football lineman, former wrestler or just stocky he will be taped every time and pass every time. It makes no sense because when those standards were proposed (years before publication in 1986) the average male was a skinny kid. Time for new (current) standards that fit the body types of real people.

  10. #40
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    Re: PT in the Army

    4 pages of "ideas" on the stupidest issue the Army has ever had. Why it is indicative of the "one size fits all" mentality that has always existed. PT and physical fitness is an INDIVIDUAL case by case basis taking in sex, ethnicity, nutrition, metabolism, and a host of other factors. Only problem is the Army has never been about individualism at all so it basis it's "PT Program" on a "group think" mentality that every Soldier is the same.

    I would like to see the Army keep the PT test it has now as an overall fitness test, but completely do away with a "structured" PT program (yeah I know good luck). We did an experiment once while deployed to Bosnia in my unit. PT was done on an INDIVIDUAL BASIS at a certain time of the day the only rule being you could do basically "anything" as long as you did "something". As a result Soldiers were free to work in areas they were weak in and not concentrate so much on areas they already showed a strong performance in. As a result injuries and profiles decreased, and PT test scores went up. As someone else stated getting rid of all the CRAP the Army serves as a meal would help as well. A prime example breakfast (eggs=cholesterol, bacon=cholesterol and fat, same with sausage, gravy= grease, pancakes with sugary syrup ect) compared to a European breakfast of cheeses, yogurts, fish, granola, milk etc.

    Now as soon as we came back to the states we went right back to the Army's "structured" PT program as a result injuries and profiles increased dramatically, PT test scores actually dropped, and the whole process started over again. What this proved is that if you allow the Soldiers the freedom (yeah the Army is still learning the meaning of this word) to work out on their own, they tend to concentrate on those weak areas, stop when they are tired and in pain instead of "pushing through" the injury, and actually get healthier.

    In addition PT at least on the Post I am on takes up the most productive part of the day early morning. You are up, refreshed, and ready to go to work (especially in the summer when mornings are cool and daytime temps reach the 100's) but instead of using that time to accomplish the day's mission you are wasting it doing PT (afterall why work outdoors when it is 70 degrees when you can do PT and then have the Soldiers come back dehydrated, worn down, physically exhausted to work in 90-100 degree weather outdoors).

    No I say do away with structured PT all together, place the emphasis on fitness on the Soldier themselves (oohhh you mean we have to treat them as adults responsible for their own fitness levels???? NOOOOOOO some General has a heart attack in response) and then if they FAIL the PT test put them into a structured program with a Master Fitness Trainer like we used to have. Otherwise PT on your own and pass the PT test once during the 6 month time frame like now.

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