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Thread: Two-star fired from running top secret program office; under multiple IG investigatio

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I remember the case of the F16 mechanics that reversed some part on the wing flaps or something...that was a known issue that big AF failed to deal with effectively...basically both mechanics were being court-martialed for it and one ended up taking his own life.
    F-16 is fly-by-wire, so there's nothing you can really reverse on an F-16 flaperon (aileron/flap). You connect the servo-actuator to a cannon plug and hydraulic lines. The return and supply hyd lines are different sizes, so they can't be accidentally reversed.


    30 May 1995: F-15C-26-MC, 79‑0068, c/n 0616/C137, of the 53rd FS, 52nd FW, USAF, Major Donald Lowry was killed when his F-15C crashed at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany. Investigation showed that during routine maintenance, mechanics had crossed and mis-connected the control rods. Two mechanics were charged with negligent homicide. One took his own life during his military trial. After the amazing revelation that over-zealous prosecution had cost another life, the charges against the other mechanic were dropped

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    F-16 is fly-by-wire, so there's nothing you can really reverse on an F-16 flaperon (aileron/flap). You connect the servo-actuator to a cannon plug and hydraulic lines. The return and supply hyd lines are different sizes, so they can't be accidentally reversed.


    30 May 1995: F-15C-26-MC, 79‑0068, c/n 0616/C137, of the 53rd FS, 52nd FW, USAF, Major Donald Lowry was killed when his F-15C crashed at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany. Investigation showed that during routine maintenance, mechanics had crossed and mis-connected the control rods. Two mechanics were charged with negligent homicide. One took his own life during his military trial. After the amazing revelation that over-zealous prosecution had cost another life, the charges against the other mechanic were dropped
    Yep...that's the case. My bad on the details.

    Anyway, I've always felt like Fogleman more or less birthed the 'one-mistake Air Force'...but, didn't mean for it to happen to a G.O.
    Last edited by Bos Mutus; 06-21-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Yep...that's the case. My bad on the details.

    Anyway, I've always felt like Fogleman more or less birthed the 'one-mistake Air Force'...but, didn't mean for it to happen to a G.O.

    A lot if mistakes were made with this mishap, like the failure to perform the necessary Operational Checkouts following maintenance...even though they signed off the forms as Op Ck Good. Also, the crew chief launching the aircraft on this flight should have verified correct flight control movement prior to taxi. At least that's what we did as crew chiefs on F-16s and F-117s. I'm quite sure the F-15 world is no different.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    A lot if mistakes were made with this mishap, like the failure to perform the necessary Operational Checkouts following maintenance...even though they signed off the forms as Op Ck Good. Also, the crew chief launching the aircraft on this flight should have verified correct flight control movement prior to taxi. At least that's what we did as crew chiefs on F-16s and F-117s. I'm quite sure the F-15 world is no different.
    I imagine that's true. My understanding is after this mishap, they finally got around to color coding the ends of the rod with the places it goes, so that it was easily and visually apparent how to connect it.

    Again, my point within all this was the 'accountability' environment created by Fogleman translated to "find someone to burn for this"...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I imagine that's true. My understanding is after this mishap, they finally got around to color coding the ends of the rod with the places it goes, so that it was easily and visually apparent how to connect it.

    Again, my point within all this was the 'accountability' environment created by Fogleman translated to "find someone to burn for this"...
    I'm not sure exactly whose watch the one-mistake AF started, but I do know that I would never survive as an Airman in today's AF. During one of my last assignments overseas I remember an AMOW Wing/CC directing a system-wide Sq/CC telecom and corrective action plan following an ARI (alcohol related incident) that simply involved two Airmen pushing each other outside of the base club after a few drinks. The involved Sq/CC had to send out his action plan to the entire wing (following the telecon), which was geographically spread out over multiple countries. Talk about overkill for something in my Airman days would just result in Security Forces or a Supervisor breaking up the altercation and escorting the involved Airman back to their dorm rooms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    I'm not sure exactly whose watch the one-mistake AF started, but I do know that I would never survive as an Airman in today's AF. During one of my last assignments overseas I remember an AMOW Wing/CC directing a system-wide Sq/CC telecom and corrective action plan following an ARI (alcohol related incident) that simply involved two Airmen pushing each other outside of the base club after a few drinks. The involved Sq/CC had to send out his action plan to the entire wing (following the telecon), which was geographically spread out over multiple countries. Talk about overkill for something in my Airman days would just result in Security Forces or a Supervisor breaking up the altercation and escorting the involved Airman back to their dorm rooms.
    I think the "one-mistake" AF mentality grew gradually and can't be attributed to one person. I arrived in England in 1986 and during the in-processing briefings we were briefed on how strict the AF there was. They told us about a newly assigned airman whose supervisor told him the best way to get over jet-lag was to stay up late so the supervisor took him pub crawling. The airman didn't drink and when it was time to head back to base the supervisor had the airman drive him home. On the way home, they get pulled over and it turns out the airman didn't have a driving permit/license. The airman was discharged from the AF for this but no action was take against the supervisor.

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    I think the "one-mistake" AF mentality grew gradually and can't be attributed to one person. I arrived in England in 1986 and during the in-processing briefings we were briefed on how strict the AF there was. They told us about a newly assigned airman whose supervisor told him the best way to get over jet-lag was to stay up late so the supervisor took him pub crawling. The airman didn't drink and when it was time to head back to base the supervisor had the airman drive him home. On the way home, they get pulled over and it turns out the airman didn't have a driving permit/license. The airman was discharged from the AF for this but no action was take against the supervisor.
    I was at Clark from '86-'90 and while Art 15s were a weekly occurrence, most seemed to survive it. We still had Correctional Custody at that time and a few of my buddies went through that and lived to tell about it.

    Then again...as I mentioned, there were certain breeding lines of officer...so I think it depended on the command/line you were under at that time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I was at Clark from '86-'90 and while Art 15s were a weekly occurrence, most seemed to survive it. We still had Correctional Custody at that time and a few of my buddies went through that and lived to tell about it.
    I had an assignment to Clark in late 1991 and I was looking forward to it. My commander, at my stateside base, was Filipino and he lined me up with a house to rent, his father, who was a college professor, was selling his Corvette so I could buy that car if I wanted to, and an NCO in our squadron knew the local tribal chief where the house was and would arrange security for me. I was all setup for the assignment and then it was cancelled because the slot I was to fill was created so a couple could have a joint-spouse assignment was deleted when the NCO was to PCS. I was able to get a new assignment to Osan AB, Korea, which turned out to be beneficial to me in that had I gone to Clark I would have been there when Mount Pinatubo exploded.

    Then again...as I mentioned, there were certain breeding lines of officer...so I think it depended on the command/line you were under at that time.
    I think it also has to do which side of the base, operations vs support, you were assigned to. From my perspective on the support side was easier on people who made mistakes.

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    I think it also has to do which side of the base, operations vs support, you were assigned to. From my perspective on the support side was easier on people who made mistakes.[/QUOTE]
    I think you are right,except if you're considering Security Forces as support, that would be an exception. No statistics but it appeared to me they had a lot of article 15s.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    I think it also has to do which side of the base, operations vs support, you were assigned to. From my perspective on the support side was easier on people who made mistakes.
    I think you are right,except if you're considering Security Forces as support, that would be an exception. No statistics but it appeared to me they had a lot of article 15s.[/QUOTE]
    I'd put Security Police on the support side and those activities whose primary duties concern the flight line and air operations as the operations side. I've had troops whose spouses were SPs and from what they said they confirm what you said.

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