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Thread: Meet the Fort Meade trans women fighting the military’s ban

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    As I previously stated, I think religious people are mentally unstable - believing in a magical sky man who controls everything, despite zero evidence and logic to support it? Mental disorder. Delusional.
    THIS is why debating with you a useless. You're a classic hypocrite. HOW do you know each individual on this Earth has zero evidence or logic to support their own belief in a God...any God. YOU have already decided that believing in a God is a "mental disorder" and that they're "delusional'" all because of YOUR personal beliefs.

    I think it's more appropriate to label those delusional who actually BELIEVE that by chance, and chance alone that a human being can be created with a sperm and egg, then mature to the point where it can figure out how to fly to a moon or live on a space station. Science and God/Spirituality aren't mutually exclusive, unless you talk to the Meatbringer's of the world.

    By the way, the absence of understanding and scientific evidence (by TODAY'S knowledge/standards of measurement) isn't conclusive of anything. If time travel was possible, try going back and explaining to George Washington, or better yet, ANY scientist on 1780's Earth how an iPhone will work (electricity, internet, phone, apps, etc). They'd confidently label you as having a "mental disorder" and being "delusional." The bottom line is that there are plenty of events and experiences in this world that the smartest scientists admittedly have zero understanding or explanation of.

    Listen, this isn't a debate on God, but rather a perfect example of "I'm right, your wrong because of my limited beliefs."

    Here's a book for you. It's about "delusional" people:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EBGTMZ8...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
    Last edited by FLAPS; 05-12-2019 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Sleep apnea is a disorder, diabetes is a disorder, MS is a disorder, alcoholism is a disorder, PTSD, anxiety disorders, manic depression, thyroid disorders, T-balance disorders, etc.... All allowed and treated in the military.
    No, they aren't ALL allowed. You're starting to make me believe that you aren't in ANY actual leadership position, but rather just a regular, uninformed worker-bee (common folk in civ terms), or dare I suggest....a TRANS worker-bee.

    NOW, here are the facts. If the conditions require on-going, continued specialized treatment that make you ineligible to deploy for an indefinite period of time, you will be MEB'd and separated. No ands, ifs or butts about it.

  3. #53
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    No, they aren't ALL allowed. You're starting to make me believe that you aren't in ANY actual leadership position, but rather just a regular, uninformed worker-bee (common folk in civ terms), or dare I suggest....a TRANS worker-bee.

    NOW, here are the facts. If the conditions require on-going, continued specialized treatment that make you ineligible to deploy for an indefinite period of time, you will be MEB'd and separated. No ands, ifs or butts about it.
    I realize this isn't a debate about god, as I was merely using that example to express a point. It obviously went over your head.

    Sorry, you are wrong. I've worked with numerous people who served while living with the mentioned disorders: MS, diabetes, alcoholism, anxiety disorders... One individual I worked with years ago at Luke would have seizures, another had depression and some mental issues, resulting in him having to constantly be on mood medication. All these people were treated, evaluated, and deemed fit enough to serve. I'll admit that some of the cases made them not suitable for certain positions, but they were allowed to serve regardless, and performed just fine. Sleep Apnea? C'mon, you know damn well that so many fat people in service have sleep apnea. It's ridiculous. If you refuse to accept any of what I've mentioned (as I'm sure you will), please feel free to simply google any of the aforementioned disorders and "military service." You will find plenty of stories, examples, and even some data about people serving with the disorders.

    And yes, there is a great deal of truth to what you mentioned about ongoing treatment and being able to deploy, etc; however, it is handled on a case by case basis. There are people who have served for years under treatment, all depending on the severity of their disorder, their job, and many other factors involved.

    Once again, things aren't that black and white. If you had ever served in a leadership role, you should understand this. For example, I worked with a TSgt who had MS and was on constant medication and would have issues if he didn't take care of himself properly. He was an instructor for four years, so deploying wasn't an issue. He then went on to Holloman and worked as a flight chief to finish his career. Another person I know, who still serves today, has diabetes. He cannot deploy or PCS to an installation without certain medical accommodations readily available. Not only does he still serve, but he is a fast burner and made SMSgt extremely early. So, as you can see, you are wrong...again....shocking.

    And not that I care, but just to clarify, I'm a prior enlisted who served as a flight chief before I commissioned. I now serve as a sq MOO, and am currently deployed.

    Got anymore dumb jokes or ridiculous, pointless stories to share? Maybe a rant about "snowflakes" or "left wing nonsense?" Lol
    Last edited by meatbringer; 05-12-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  4. #54
    Senior Member LogDog's Avatar
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    While people have personal opinions as to who can and can't serve, the decision still resides with the DoD. This link, DoD6130.03, identifies the conditions that disqualifies a person from enlisting in the military. On page 4, it also states:
    This issuance does not apply to any medical issue associated with gender dysphoria or gender transition; such medical accession standards are addressed in separate guidance. Any questions regarding such medical accessions standards or procedures should be directed to the Commander, U.S. Military Entrance Processing Command (USMEPCOM). [/I]


    The separate guidance, mentioned above, can be viewed at this link, DTM-19-004.





  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Sleep apnea is a disorder, diabetes is a disorder, MS is a disorder, alcoholism is a disorder, PTSD, anxiety disorders, manic depression, thyroid disorders, T-balance disorders, etc.... All allowed and treated in the military.
    No, they aren't ALL allowed. You're starting to make me believe that you aren't in ANY actual leadership position, but rather just a regular, uninformed worker-bee (common folk in civ terms), or dare I suggest....a TRANS worker-bee.

    NOW, here are the facts. If the conditions require on-going, continued specialized treatment that make you ineligible to deploy for an indefinite period of time, you will be MEB'd and separated. No ands, ifs or butts about it.
    Meet. Check out https://www.military.com/join-armed-...onditions.html.

    Roughly 3/5th's down the page, it flat out says "The following conditions may disqualify you for military service:" Then lists sleep apnea and narcolepsy.

    Then as per https://www.thebalancecareers.com/mi...ission-3354046

    we see "The causes for rejection for appointment or enlistment, WITHOUT approved waivers: include authenticated histories of
    ADD/ADHD, Current or history of disorders with psychotic features such as schizophrenia (295), paranoid disorder (297), and other unspecified psychosis (298), Dyslexia.
    Mood disorders such as depression, bipolar disorder, psychoses, and other unspecified depressive issues are disqualifying. Any history of mood disorders requiring medication and/or outpatient care for longer than six months by a mental health professional is also disqualifying.

    SO YES having a mental disorder is a disqualifying feature.. SO WHY SHOULD gender dysporhia not be???

  6. #56
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Meet. Check out https://www.military.com/join-armed-...onditions.html.

    Roughly 3/5th's down the page, it flat out says "The following conditions may disqualify you for military service:" Then lists sleep apnea and narcolepsy.

    Then as per https://www.thebalancecareers.com/mi...ission-3354046

    we see "The causes for rejection for appointment or enlistment, WITHOUT approved waivers: include authenticated histories of
    ADD/ADHD, Current or history of disorders with psychotic features such as schizophrenia (295), paranoid disorder (297), and other unspecified psychosis (298), Dyslexia.
    Mood disorders such as depression, bipolar disorder, psychoses, and other unspecified depressive issues are disqualifying. Any history of mood disorders requiring medication and/or outpatient care for longer than six months by a mental health professional is also disqualifying.

    SO YES having a mental disorder is a disqualifying feature.. SO WHY SHOULD gender dysporhia not be???
    First of all, I'd like to thank you for acting like an adult and refraining from jabs at my wife, "snowflake" comments, "left wing crying" comments, and whatever other lame comments seem to be the norm on this forum anymore. Now, you are correct! However, the key is in the first sentence you posted: "MAY disqualify you..." meaning that it doesn't automatically disqualify you, because as I said, these are handled by a case by case basis, determining if the disorders actually interfere with your ability to serve. Sleep apnea is a disorder that is pretty common in the AF. There are people in my squadron right now who have it.

    Also, the other disorders you listed state "...outpatient care for >6 months by a mental health professional..." Once again, this means you are not automatically disqualified, as you can receive treatment, but not for more than 6 months at a time by a mental health professional. So, once again, these disorders don't automatically disqualify you for having them, as they can be handled on a case by case basis.

    Once again, thank you for the adult reply. Your post also reinforced the exact point I am trying to prove. If you don't know people in the military with sleep apnea or the other disorders listed, then you aren't paying attention or you live in a bubble.
    Last edited by meatbringer; 05-12-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    SO YES having a mental disorder is a disqualifying feature.. SO WHY SHOULD gender dysporhia not be???
    Agreed. There are plenty of opportunities for gender-confused to serve, such as the Peace Corps, Foreign Legion, Australian Armed Services (yes, they're hiring foreigners). They can also pursue a career working for the DNC, to include the 99% of media outlets that they own and control. I hear they're also giving out free "RESIST" and "I'm still with HER" buttons to those who sign up.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Sleep apnea is a disorder that is pretty common in the AF. There are people in my squadron right now who have it.
    I'm still dying to know which Sq in your MXG is only at 60% deployable due to health conditions. Please tell. We'll keep it between us forum participants.

  9. #59
    Senior Member LogDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Meet. Check out https://www.military.com/join-armed-...onditions.html.

    Roughly 3/5th's down the page, it flat out says "The following conditions may disqualify you for military service:" Then lists sleep apnea and narcolepsy.

    Then as per https://www.thebalancecareers.com/mi...ission-3354046

    we see "The causes for rejection for appointment or enlistment, WITHOUT approved waivers: include authenticated histories of
    ADD/ADHD, Current or history of disorders with psychotic features such as schizophrenia (295), paranoid disorder (297), and other unspecified psychosis (298), Dyslexia.
    Mood disorders such as depression, bipolar disorder, psychoses, and other unspecified depressive issues are disqualifying. Any history of mood disorders requiring medication and/or outpatient care for longer than six months by a mental health professional is also disqualifying.
    The key word is "may." The DoD has set the standards as to the medical conditions for enlistment.

    SO YES having a mental disorder is a disqualifying feature.. SO WHY SHOULD gender dysporhia not be???
    In the post before your post, I provided two links to DoD policy concerning what qualifies and disqualifies a person for military service and although your two links are informational they may not actually reflect DoD policy The reason gender dysporhia isn't considered a mental disorder is because it isn't an mental disorder. According to the American Psychological Association (APA) and the DoD gender dysporhia is not a mental disorder. From the APA:
    Is being transgender a mental disorder?
    A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

    According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."
    APA
    .

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    While people have personal opinions as to who can and can't serve, the decision still resides with the DoD.
    Of course. If they're capable of performing their duties, home or deployed, no reason why they can't serve their country. That said, I will always believe that if you are born as a male, then you are a male until the day you die. If you are born a female, you are a female until the day you die.

    If I get into a trans person's face to challenge them on this, or otherwise harass them about being a transgender person, then I AM a bigot. However, if I treat them with respect but continue to believe they are as they were born, to include admitting this IF ASKED, then I am NOT a bigot. Fair enough?

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