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Thread: Meet the Fort Meade trans women fighting the military’s ban

  1. #21
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Was Chelsea Manning a high functioning soldier or was his/her decision to leak classified information part of a mental reasoning disorder? In other words, was some of his/her decision-making impacted by gender dysphoria?

  2. #22
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaLawyer View Post
    Was Chelsea Manning a high functioning soldier or was his/her decision to leak classified information part of a mental reasoning disorder? In other words, was some of his/her decision-making impacted by gender dysphoria?
    IMO, I don't think Manning's decision to leak classified was directly linked to gender dysphoria. Undoubtedly anxiety, stress, anger over treatment etc. related to the gender dysphoria were factors ... along that line ... any decision making (good or bad) is impacted by the 'baggage' we bring along with us: I rigidly enforced the requirement for aircrew on the EP-3 to opcheck parachutes before each flight (something that many had never seen) ... part of my decision was based on my experience as a parachutist and knowing how much can go wrong with a parachute and how easy it is to check.

    FWIW, Manning was never a high functioning Soldier ie. never really rated more than average etc.

    John Walker was what could be classified as a "high functioning" Sailor (Chief Petty Officer, Chief Warrant Officer), was liked by many of is co-workers, yet he had a liking for expensive toys, booze and womanizing. Some of his decision making was related to his accumulation of debt related to behavior that many romanticize.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  3. #23
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Thanks, I was being sincere. Can you answer this question? Do you believe a person born as a male but is now a transgender female is now an actual female or pretending to be a female?
    Interesting question, and a bit more complex than you realize. As previously stated, there are a myriad of reasons that one chooses to transition. For example, there are those who are born with external female genitals but lack the inner organs of a woman. Some are born with both genitalia and "ambiguous genitalia." Some children are born as one gender, but later develop genetically or hormonally as the opposite gender. Other people are born with male genitalia but have the hormonal levels of a female, and vise versa. There are much more instances where the lines would be blurred, which have been mentioned multiple times in the two threads regarding this subject. You know, that pesky science you keep mentioning but refuse to look into at all to better understand the topic.

    It all depends on the many variables associated with transgender cases. It's not that simple... Who am I to tell someone that they are a man because they "have a schlong," yet they may have the inner organs of a woman, developed as a female during puberty, or were actually born with the hormonal levels or genetics of a female? People like you only see in black and white because you refuse to approach such topics with an open mind or the willingness to learn about it. Instead, you just say "dudes have a schlong" and "there is no changing my mind!"

    Imagine having the inner organs of a man, testosterone levels of a man that constantly increase as you mature, the genetics of a man, being attracted only to women.....but you have a vagina...or both a penis and a vagina. What then? I guess you're just a chick, right? You must be a crazy person, according to you.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Interesting question, and a bit more complex than you realize. As previously stated, there are a myriad of reasons that one chooses to transition. For example, there are those who are born with external female genitals but lack the inner organs of a woman. Some are born with both genitalia and "ambiguous genitalia." Some children are born as one gender, but later develop genetically or hormonally as the opposite gender. Other people are born with male genitalia but have the hormonal levels of a female, and vise versa. There are much more instances where the lines would be blurred, which have been mentioned multiple times in the two threads regarding this subject. You know, that pesky science you keep mentioning but refuse to look into at all to better understand the topic.

    It all depends on the many variables associated with transgender cases. It's not that simple... Who am I to tell someone that they are a man because they "have a schlong," yet they may have the inner organs of a woman, developed as a female during puberty, or were actually born with the hormonal levels or genetics of a female? People like you only see in black and white because you refuse to approach such topics with an open mind or the willingness to learn about it. Instead, you just say "dudes have a schlong" and "there is no changing my mind!"

    Imagine having the inner organs of a man, testosterone levels of a man that constantly increase as you mature, the genetics of a man, being attracted only to women.....but you have a vagina...or both a penis and a vagina. What then? I guess you're just a chick, right? You must be a crazy person, according to you.
    Jesus Christ, dude, it was a simple effing question to ascertain your opinion. Can't you state your opinion, in simple general terms, instead of vomiting three entire paragraphs of garbage? And by the way, if a male is born with female hormones, then why the necessity of hormone treatment to become a woman? Let's try this again:

    In THIS scenario: A male is born as a male, has male-only hormones, organs, etc. (keeping this simple for you), but DECIDES later on that he wants to be a female and thus becomes a transgender female, IN YOUR OPINION, is this person now an actual female or is this person pretending to be female?

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    FEEL GOOD STORY

    I was born as a black child and adopted by a loving Jewish couple and raised in a wonderful Jewish community, went to Jewish schools, etc. My adoptive parents didn't have a lot of money, so I enrolled in a local community college. During my first semester I was approached by a friendly black student who, along with his girlfriend, persuaded me to attend a Black Student Union meeting. I figured, hey, this is something new so I'll try it out.

    I went to two meetings, but something just didn't feel right. I realized that I just didn't relate to the BSU members, in any way, shape or form. In fact, it was this experience that made me realize that I feel like a Caucasian, Jewish man. I know I don't "look" like one, but deep in my heart I know this is who/what I really am.

    I eventually sought council from my parents and friends and told them that I wanted to be recognized as a white Jewish man, because I know that deep, deep in my heart this is what I am. My friends laughed at this idea and my parents were a little concerned at first, but they all came around and respected my wishes.

    When my second semester started I told my classmates and African American friends that I identified as a white Jewish man. Most laughed at me, but surprisingly a few didn't. One of those few people was named Meatbringer. He's a bigshot USAF MXG leader (MXG Chief, Sq/CC or MOO...not sure)...refers to others as HIS people, HIS group, so I know HE is important (until he retires, that is).

    Anywho...Meatbringer and I would become friends but he made it clear that he can't because of HIS rank/position in the USAF. I'm thinking that I am not in the USAF, but ok, I'll let this go. He's a big shot anyway.

    Friends or not, Meatbringer did put his arm around my shoulder and tell me that "yes, you ARE a white Jewish man. There's a lot of science behind what I'm saying, but I won't bore you with the multiple paragraphs that I'm prepared to show you. Just trust me....and I'll see you at next Month's Jewish American luncheon. It's 'highly encouraged" for all to attend anyway."

    The End
    Last edited by FLAPS; 05-09-2019 at 03:45 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    FEEL GOOD STORY

    I was born as a black child and adopted by a loving Jewish couple and raised in a wonderful Jewish community, went to Jewish schools, etc. My adoptive parents didn't have a lot of money, so I enrolled in a local community college. During my first semester I was approached by a friendly black student who, along with his girlfriend, persuaded me to attend a Black Student Union meeting. I figured, hey, this is something new so I'll try it out.

    I went to two meetings, but something just didn't feel right. I realized that I just didn't relate to the BSU members, in any way, shape or form. In fact, it was this experience that made me realize that I feel like a Caucasian, Jewish man. I know I don't "look" like one, but deep in my heart I know this is who/what I really am.

    I eventually sought council from my parents and friends and told them that I wanted to be recognized as a white Jewish man, because I know that deep, deep in my heart this is what I am. My friends laughed at this idea and my parents were a little concerned at first, but they all came around and respected my wishes.

    When my second semester started I told my classmates and African American friends that I identified as a white Jewish man. Most laughed at me, but surprisingly a few didn't. One of those few people was named Meatbringer. He's a bigshot USAF MXG leader (MXG Chief, Sq/CC or MOO...not sure)...refers to others as HIS people, HIS group, so I know HE is important (until he retires, that is).

    Anywho...Meatbringer and I would become friends but he made it clear that he can't because of HIS rank/position in the USAF. I'm thinking that I am not in the USAF, but ok, I'll let this go. He's a big shot anyway.

    Friends or not, Meatbringer did put his arm around my shoulder and tell me that "yes, you ARE a white Jewish man. There's a lot of science behind what I'm saying, but I won't bore you with the multiple paragraphs that I'm prepared to show you. Just trust me....and I'll see you at next Month's Jewish American luncheon. It's 'highly encouraged" for all to attend anyway."

    The End
    OMG!!! I'm dying!!! ROFLMAO

  7. #27
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Jesus Christ, dude, it was a simple effing question to ascertain your opinion. Can't you state your opinion, in simple general terms, instead of vomiting three entire paragraphs of garbage? And by the way, if a male is born with female hormones, then why the necessity of hormone treatment to become a woman? Let's try this again:

    In THIS scenario: A male is born as a male, has male-only hormones, organs, etc. (keeping this simple for you), but DECIDES later on that he wants to be a female and thus becomes a transgender female, IN YOUR OPINION, is this person now an actual female or is this person pretending to be female?
    The purpose the "three paragraphs of garbage" was to illustrate how complex the issue can be and the reality behind it. So sorry it was a bit much for you.

    Your question? I don't think anyone is "pretending" to be another gender. Fist of all, why would someone pretend to be another gender for no reason other than to be treated like a crazy person by such fine, open-minded and accepting people such as yourself? This is literally the same argument that was brought up by people like you about gays years ago, that they were "pretending," it was/is a choice, or are mentally ill.

    Here is a very insightful article from Harvard touching on the subject. It actually addresses exactly what you are asking about: whether instances like you mention are people merely "pretending." Wanna know what they are finding via scientific research? People who decide to transition are born with a brain more similar to the gender in which they choose to identify with, as opposed to the gender that they were born. So, (to keep it simple for you) people with schlongs are sometimes born with a brain that functions/resembles that of someone who has a vagina!

    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/20...nder-identity/

  8. #28
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    So, (to keep it simple for you) people with schlongs are sometimes born with a brain that functions/resembles that of someone who has a vagina!

    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/20...nder-identity/
    Rainmaker tried to understand this blog article from the career student at Hahvahd. But, unfortunately I only have two CCAF degrees & 30 years experience. So I couldn't make heads or tails of it.....How do you supposed to know if the girl in your squad gots an innie or an outtie?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 05-10-2019 at 02:44 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    The purpose the "three paragraphs of garbage" was to illustrate how complex the issue can be and the reality behind it. So sorry it was a bit much for you.

    Your question? I don't think anyone is "pretending" to be another gender. Fist of all, why would someone pretend to be another gender for no reason other than to be treated like a crazy person by such fine, open-minded and accepting people such as yourself? This is literally the same argument that was brought up by people like you about gays years ago, that they were "pretending," it was/is a choice, or are mentally ill.

    Here is a very insightful article from Harvard touching on the subject. It actually addresses exactly what you are asking about: whether instances like you mention are people merely "pretending." Wanna know what they are finding via scientific research? People who decide to transition are born with a brain more similar to the gender in which they choose to identify with, as opposed to the gender that they were born. So, (to keep it simple for you) people with schlongs are sometimes born with a brain that functions/resembles that of someone who has a vagina!

    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/20...nder-identity/

    I will check out your article, but let's get one thing clear concerning "...people like you"? You have no idea who/what I believe or support outside of the trans or CCAF discussion. I've worked with gays/lesbians (in AGSs, flying sqs, EMSs, MXSs, AMXSs, MXGs, etc) long before and after DADT, have a few gay/lesbian friends that I've known for many years, and even know of one gay person who thinks trans people should be gay/lesbian, not trans. Imagine that? How dare THOSE people!

    Perhaps YOU should do a little research on your own to LEARN that there are people like me who have varied opinions depending on the subject. The world isn't as black and white as Fox people vs MSNBC people....or perhaps "People like you" refuse to believe that.

  10. #30
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-..._source=clavis

    "She also said she is suffering physical problems related with inadequate follow-up care to gender-reassignment surgery."

    Another reason trans-genders shouldn't be allowed to serve... Will He/She/It try to claim VA disability for this now? If He/She/It were still on active duty, the time spent in medical could be exhaustive on the troops having to pick up the slack.

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