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Thread: Meet the Fort Meade trans women fighting the military’s ban

  1. #11
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Here's your shot meatbringer. If a person is born as a male and later changes his name to a female's, starts wearing female clothing, and insists he is now a female, is this person pretending to be a female, or is this person now an actual female?

    Can you educate me, or are you going to insist that I read a book or otherwise find the answer somewhere else. If you do the later, then I guess it's safe to assume that you don't really know the answer.
    My previous post/rebuttal should more than answer this as well. Kristen Beck has been transgender since before puberty. Beck served honorably as a freaking highly decorated Navy Seal and accomplished more than you ever will, before retiring and deciding to transition afterwards. As a transgender person, Beck was more than mentally capable of serving in extremely stressful and dangerous situations that most of us couldn't even fathom.

    It's becoming very clear that there is no educating you.

  2. #12
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaLawyer View Post
    Who ever said it made me uncomfortable? I'm merely pointing out the fact it's considered a "dysphoria" and "disorder." Like many other disqualifying disorders (As mentioned with ADHD) we turn away highly potential candidates because of this disability yet we're willing to make an exception for people with gender identity disorder and/or gender dysphoria?

    My comfort factor is not an issue here. I work with a couple of transgenders as we speak (type) and they do a fabulous job. I also have a good rapport with both of them. This is merely a point of pre-existing conditions.
    For military entrance, many "disorders" are disqualifying; previous exhibitions of some of these if under control and 'sufficient time has passed since manifestation' are allowable ... not just an exception for gender dysphoria etc.

    For disorders exhibited after accession, it comes down to if the issue is manageable within the bounds of military service (PTSD, anxiety disorder, some personality disorders etc.)

    My concern with gender dysphoria and the recent back and forth on the policy is that the policy reversal does not seem to be based on either medical advice (AMA and military surgeon generals) nor the advice of the service chiefs, CJCS nor then-SECDEF. Granted, it is POTUSs prerogative to go against their advice (elections have consequences) ... but when there is unanimous advice from the service chiefs that the issue is not a hindrance to readiness, a cost issue (we spend more on Viagra) etc. it seems like it is just a play for the base vice the best interests of readiness, lethality etc.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    So you seriously think that Beck simply suddenly decided that he wanted to transition after leaving service?
    Of course not, but he probably didn't make it a barracks discussion either.


    Wow, you once again display your ignorance.
    GFYS.

    If you actually knew about Kristin Beck, then you would know that, as a male, he felt trapped in the wrong body since grade school.
    I know he FELT like he was in the wrong body. Isn't that the DISORDER part of this issue?

    He didn't suddenly decide or "display symptoms of a mental disorder" right after leaving service.
    So, he was DISPLAYING symptoms (i.e., dressing, acting like a woman) while still in the service? Wrong. DISPLAYING something is NOT synonymous with FEELING something. Don't be ignorant.

    He had always felt that way but chose not to transition until after retirement!
    I think we established this.

    They even made a documentary about it! Christ.... There are interviews where Beck even talks about this.
    OK, so what? Are we debating the disorder?

    Nice quick Wikipedia reference, though. Lol! Like I've said about a hundred times to you, freaking educate yourself before spouting garbage.
    If I am going to quote Wikipedia, I tend to carefully only quote the facts. Are you debating what I actually chose to quote as false? I didn't think so.

    Listen, you and I have different opinions. So what. I don't go around harassing people about them. You are obviously very close to this topic. Do you have friends or family that are trans? I'm sure they are nice people, and I am not attacking them personally.

    I've never met a trans (that I know of), but I am certain I will feel uncomfortable around them...at least initially. Could my experiences change my views? Certainly, as they have with a multitude of other experiences over my adult life. Until then, I can have my opinions.

    Pay close attention to Mjölnir's posts. He manages to articulate his position without attacking the recipient of the message. You, on the other hand will never make a persuasive argument while calling people names (you're ignorant, you're ignorant, you're ignorant..blah, blah, blah). Typical behavior of a growing swath of society...to emotionally lash out when someone doesn't agree.
    Last edited by FLAPS; 05-08-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    As a transgender person, Beck was more than mentally capable of serving in extremely stressful and dangerous situations that most of us couldn't even fathom.
    AS A SEAL, was Beck going through any post-transition related hormonal treatments while "serving in extremely stressful and dangerous situations that most of us couldn't even fathom"?

  5. #15
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    So, he was DISPLAYING symptoms (i.e., dressing, acting like a woman) while still in the service? Wrong. DISPLAYING something is NOT synonymous with FEELING something. Don't be ignorant.
    In her book, she states she started cross dressing, living as a female in her off duty hours for the last couple of years of her career and that some of the other SeALs knew ... didn't care.

    FWIW, I have met Kristin Beck a couple of times, not at any type of military event, we frequent the same Home Depot in southern Maryland. She's very nice, we swapped some stories about SeALs and Recon, gender discussions never came up.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  6. #16
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    AS A SEAL, was Beck going through any post-transition related hormonal treatments while "serving in extremely stressful and dangerous situations that most of us couldn't even fathom"?
    Its in her book, no hormone therapy ... started a year or two after she retired. Was receiving counseling related to the issue for the last 5 or so years.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  7. #17
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Of course not, but he probably didn't make it a barracks discussion either.
    GFYS.
    I know he FELT like he was in the wrong body. Isn't that the DISORDER part of this issue?
    So, he was DISPLAYING symptoms (i.e., dressing, acting like a woman) while still in the service? Wrong. DISPLAYING something is NOT synonymous with FEELING something. Don't be ignorant.
    I think we established this.
    OK, so what? Are we debating the disorder?
    If I am going to quote Wikipedia, I tend to carefully only quote the facts. Are you debating what I actually chose to quote as false? I didn't think so.

    Listen, you and I have different opinions. So what. I don't go around harassing people about them. You are obviously very close to this topic. Do you have friends or family that are trans? I'm sure they are nice people, and I am not attacking them personally.

    I've never met a trans (that I know of), but I am certain I will feel uncomfortable around them...at least initially. Could my experiences change my views? Certainly, as they have with a multitude of other experiences over my adult life. Until then, I can have my opinions.

    Pay close attention to Mjölnir's posts. He manages to articulate his position without attacking the recipient of the message. You, on the other hand will never make a persuasive argument while calling people names (you're ignorant, you're ignorant, you're ignorant..blah, blah, blah). Typical behavior of a growing swath of society...to emotionally lash out when someone doesn't agree.
    Once again, Beck was transgender during enlistment with no issues and displayed and felt symptoms (his cross dressing and feelings regarding his gender). So now your "argument" is "...feelings and symptoms are different." Your "argument" gets weaker and weaker with each post while we dismantle it. Also, there are 3 trans members in my mx group who undergo different treatments depending on their individual needs, and they are all superb performers and have zero issues. You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge any of this.

    You continually display a blatant disregard for the science and research behind it, all the while shouting "Science is real! Typical leftist hypocrisy! Snowflake blah blah blah...." Also, when you are directed toward relevant topics/data points regarding the subject that you could easily research to educate yourself, you refuse to acknowledge it, stating "Why read something I don't have interest in?" Furthermore, when a number of people have politely dismantled your "logic" and obvious misunderstanding on the matter discussed, your only rebuttal has been "No one will change my mind!"

    You have repeatedly displayed ignorance on this matter in two separate threads pertaining to this same subject. It is the definition of ignorance. You are just uncomfortable about the subject, which you have admitted multiple times, so you refuse to listen to reason, logic, or science, and opt to just let your fear drive your narrow views and opinion on the matter.
    Last edited by meatbringer; 05-08-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Also, there are 3 trans members in my mx group who undergo different treatments depending on their individual needs, and they are all superb performers and have zero issues. You repeatedly refuse to acknowledge any of this.
    Great, I'm sure they're nice people.

  9. #19
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Great, I'm sure they're nice people.
    Great rebuttal!

    So, we know that transgender people can, and have, served honorably without any notable issues before, during, and after transitions, treatment, therapy, etc. Also, as Mjolnir pointed out, there have not been any issues financially or from a personnel stance, according to the different branches and various levels of leadership. Heck, we spend more on Viagra for vets. I guess if god wanted people to have sex, then they wouldn't need pills... Anyways, although you have never met a scary transgender person, there are plenty of us who have, and have even worked with them in the military. I've even had a hand in a couple of cases where the individual wanted to transition either just on paper or to undergo hormone treatment. Guess what? No issues. They execute their duties with zero problem and are valuable members of the squadron. We've also listed the many cases and symptoms that can contribute to the various reasons as to why someone would want to transition...all scientifically proven and backed up with research. If someone proves that they have the mental capacity to perform, then there is no problem.

    So what was the basis of your argument/views again? Oh yeah, "They make me uncomfortable," and "Dudes have a schlong."

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatbringer View Post
    Great rebuttal!
    Thanks, I was being sincere. Can you answer this question? Do you believe a person born as a male but is now a transgender female is now an actual female or pretending to be a female?
    Last edited by FLAPS; 05-09-2019 at 11:05 AM.

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