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SeaLawyer
04-08-2019, 02:03 PM
Someone needs to revive this forum. It once thrived; however, for unknown reasons has died. Perhaps an article in the military times may do it some justice... and/or posting comments in the times like they used to.

FLAPS
04-08-2019, 03:45 PM
Someone needs to revive this forum. It once thrived; however, for unknown reasons has died. Perhaps an article in the military times may do it some justice... and/or posting comments in the times like they used to.


Too much competition from Facebook and Reddit. I don't do either of those though.

SeaLawyer
04-08-2019, 04:30 PM
That makes two of us, FLAPS.

LogDog
04-08-2019, 05:40 PM
Perhaps the reason is this is mainly a forum for military (active duty and retirees) and the Military Times is read/known to them so the subject matter would appear to be of limited interest to non-military civilians. How many people read their branch version of The Military Times. I know when I was active duty most people never read it. As SeaLawyer and Flaps pointed out, people are on other platforms like Facebook and Reddit. The other platforms are better known and utilized more leaving people little time to come to a smaller, less-know platform like this one.

BTW, like SeaLawyer and Flaps I don't do either of those platforms nor do I do Twitter. If people want to know what's going on in my life or my opinion then they can ask me.

AF sgt
04-09-2019, 03:18 PM
Perhaps the reason is this is mainly a forum for military (active duty and retirees) and the Military Times is read/known to them so the subject matter would appear to be of limited interest to non-military civilians. How many people read their branch version of The Military Times. I know when I was active duty most people never read it. As SeaLawyer and Flaps pointed out, people are on other platforms like Facebook and Reddit. The other platforms are better known and utilized more leaving people little time to come to a smaller, less-know platform like this one.

BTW, like SeaLawyer and Flaps I don't do either of those platforms nor do I do Twitter. If people want to know what's going on in my life or my opinion then they can ask me.

I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.

retiredAFcivvy
04-09-2019, 05:48 PM
I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.

I've seen a lot of discussions about the Mod wars, I may be wrong (probably am) but I think the publishers/owners had a lot to do with the mods getting heavy handed. More than once I saw it suggested that the forum might go away. Don't remember exactly when (several years ago) a lady whose husband had retired joined the forum and asked a question about a particular area they were thinking of moving. She got bombarded by several posters with remarks that offended her. She complained (maybe even to the publisher) and from that point on I started seeing reminders of the guidelines.

SeaLawyer
04-09-2019, 06:25 PM
That's a shame retiredAFcivvy; however, one should know better than to solicit advice from an open forum. Satire is sure to prevail.

Mjölnir
04-13-2019, 12:09 PM
I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.

FWIW:

First there was the "rep wars" which drove off many regular members. Following that, Gannet (who owns the forum) decided they wanted moderators, but not having anyone on staff, recruited 5 people to be moderators; IMO that was a few too many. A couple of the moderators had issues / bones to pick with a couple of members. Moderators did not always agree on what should be done, and a couple of times there was a pretty healthy discussion in the moderator section following an action.

Some members flat out didn't like the rules that they agreed to when they joined the forum being enforced. A few became very 'hostile' to any posting by a moderator; ironically at least two of these were very cordial and polite when I was on my user account (I stopped bouncing back and forth between accounts a few years ago.)
These members were advised that the rules / guidelines would be enforced and if they wanted a forum where they could have a more crude, rude, or raw discussion ... places like Reddit may be more to their liking. Over time three of the mods 'retired' and it was just me and UncaRastus.

We had one user (RobotChicken) who could be funny, could be rude. He went through a couple of temporary bans. One user asked if we could just ignore the swings in behavior and out of line comments since "he may not be in full control of his faculties"; which I interpreted to be a mental health issue. After a series of rude comments to a user, a couple warnings, he was again temporarily banned. It turns out he had a terminal disease and died a couple of days after that ban expired. I caught a lot of heat for that, which I have and will say ... if I had been told enough data to make a better informed decision ... I may have made a different one; but it is what it is.

We had one user in particular who posted a lot (Tak) and had previously been 'permanently' banned twice and that ban overturned. When he took to doxing a former forum admin, he was put on a short leash. Tak would do things like post something insulting to a mod, then 'soft' delete it so only the mods could see it, then feign ignorance when he was cited for it; to the other users it seemed like he was being picked on because they couldn't see the things he would delete. I talked the other mod and the admin into unbanning him, and he quickly went back to being rude and crude. I exchanged several message with Tak where he was negotiating:

-asking to have a subsection of the forum that was his to do what he wanted with; he would play by the rules in the other sections but the mods wouldn't go there.
-asking us to look at his post count as evidence of how valuable he was (many posts / new thread were one word); granted ... he also had a lot of good comments too.

Eventually he was permanently banned. He started a Facebook page page that seems to have quite the following;he is able to connect a lot of people, but I don't think necessarily thinks things through -- he was the one that publicized the video of the sock puppet reenlistment that got a USAFR MSgt kicked out and a LtCol retired.

One long time, formerly very logical poster took to discussions of raping my wife and (at the time) 6-year old daughter. When asked to stop he didn't and this made him even more hostile to any posting I made. Eventually after a vulgar tirade, he was banned.

When the previous admin left, he elevated my privileges to administrative but I have no connection to Gannet; I cannot update the forum software nor change the domain. I am purely functional.

Long story short, Bottom Line at the Bottom (BLAB): I don't think the mod wars are solely to blame, but definitely contributed to the slow down but you shouldn't forget that some grown adults couldn't abide by some very basic rules; first their behavior drove off many casual users, decided to kick things up a notch with the moderators which got them kicked off. This is not "banned for speaking ones mind" as you put it; but for frankly being an ass; and as much as it is someone's right to be an ass, they can also be banned from a private forum for going too far. Unfortunately the damage to the reputation of the forum was done (I once found a Reddit thread talking about the forum where active military described it as a bunch of retired, mostly Air Force guys bitching about the clouds). Reddit, Facebook and other forms of media are more popular ... I don't think MTF will really revive beyond the small crowd it has.

FLAPS
04-13-2019, 01:45 PM
FWIW:

First there was the "rep wars" which drove off many regular members. Following that, Gannet (who owns the forum) decided they wanted moderators, but not having anyone on staff, recruited 5 people to be moderators; IMO that was a few too many. A couple of the moderators had issues / bones to pick with a couple of members. Moderators did not always agree on what should be done, and a couple of times there was a pretty healthy discussion in the moderator section following an action.

Some members flat out didn't like the rules that they agreed to when they joined the forum being enforced. A few became very 'hostile' to any posting by a moderator; ironically at least two of these were very cordial and polite when I was on my user account (I stopped bouncing back and forth between accounts a few years ago.)
These members were advised that the rules / guidelines would be enforced and if they wanted a forum where they could have a more crude, rude, or raw discussion ... places like Reddit may be more to their liking. Over time three of the mods 'retired' and it was just me and UncaRastus.

We had one user (RobotChicken) who could be funny, could be rude. He went through a couple of temporary bans. One user asked if we could just ignore the swings in behavior and out of line comments since "he may not be in full control of his faculties"; which I interpreted to be a mental health issue. After a series of rude comments to a user, a couple warnings, he was again temporarily banned. It turns out he had a terminal disease and died a couple of days after that ban expired. I caught a lot of heat for that, which I have and will say ... if I had been told enough data to make a better informed decision ... I may have made a different one; but it is what it is.

We had one user in particular who posted a lot (Tak) and had previously been 'permanently' banned twice and that ban overturned. When he took to doxing a former forum admin, he was put on a short leash. Tak would do things like post something insulting to a mod, then 'soft' delete it so only the mods could see it, then feign ignorance when he was cited for it; to the other users it seemed like he was being picked on because they couldn't see the things he would delete. I talked the other mod and the admin into unbanning him, and he quickly went back to being rude and crude. I exchanged several message with Tak where he was negotiating:

-asking to have a subsection of the forum that was his to do what he wanted with; he would play by the rules in the other sections but the mods wouldn't go there.
-asking us to look at his post count as evidence of how valuable he was (many posts / new thread were one word); granted ... he also had a lot of good comments too.

Eventually he was permanently banned. He started a Facebook page page that seems to have quite the following;he is able to connect a lot of people, but I don't think necessarily thinks things through -- he was the one that publicized the video of the sock puppet reenlistment that got a USAFR MSgt kicked out and a LtCol retired.

One long time, formerly very logical poster took to discussions of raping my wife and (at the time) 6-year old daughter. When asked to stop he didn't and this made him even more hostile to any posting I made. Eventually after a vulgar tirade, he was banned.

When the previous admin left, he elevated my privileges to administrative but I have no connection to Gannet; I cannot update the forum software nor change the domain. I am purely functional.

Long story short, Bottom Line at the Bottom (BLAB): I don't think the mod wars are solely to blame, but definitely contributed to the slow down but you shouldn't forget that some grown adults couldn't abide by some very basic rules; first their behavior drove off many casual users, decided to kick things up a notch with the moderators which got them kicked off. This is not "banned for speaking ones mind" as you put it; but for frankly being an ass; and as much as it is someone's right to be an ass, they can also be banned from a private forum for going too far. Unfortunately the damage to the reputation of the forum was done (I once found a Reddit thread talking about the forum where active military described it as a bunch of retired, mostly Air Force guys bitching about the clouds). Reddit, Facebook and other forms of media are more popular ... I don't think MTF will really revive beyond the small crowd it has.


The 'rep' system definitely didn't help. TAK (and perhaps others) would purposely vote down a comment with the intention of turning someone's positive rep meter RED. He and I ended up attacking either other's rep meters, then posting negative comments in protest of the other person's actions. This definitely got out of hand, resulting in my own temporary banning several times. It's been a while, but when I first joined in 2007 there were lots of participants and interesting discussions. This all changed when the rep system was introduced and arguments/attacking intensified. The forum never recovered after that, in my opinion. As for TAK, I've been visiting his Facebook "Air Force Amn/NCO/SNCO" site in off-line mode (I quit FB) and noticed that he was basically booted or otherwise turned over control of his page after posting (after the sock puppet thing) a disparaging and untrue comment/photo of an active CMSgt, who then (rightfully) threatened legal action. It's sometime after this incident that TAK relinquished control of his page. As for the man himself, he's actually made a lot of positive impact with his page/articles, etc. Unfortunately, all of this has been overwhelmingly overshadowed by several of his high-profile mistakes.

Mjölnir
04-14-2019, 03:53 PM
The 'rep' system definitely didn't help. TAK (and perhaps others) would purposely vote down a comment with the intention of turning someone's positive rep meter RED. He and I ended up attacking either other's rep meters, then posting negative comments in protest of the other person's actions. This definitely got out of hand, resulting in my own temporary banning several times. It's been a while, but when I first joined in 2007 there were lots of participants and interesting discussions. This all changed when the rep system was introduced and arguments/attacking intensified. The forum never recovered after that, in my opinion. As for TAK, I've been visiting his Facebook "Air Force Amn/NCO/SNCO" site in off-line mode (I quit FB) and noticed that he was basically booted or otherwise turned over control of his page after posting (after the sock puppet thing) a disparaging and untrue comment/photo of an active CMSgt, who then (rightfully) threatened legal action. It's sometime after this incident that TAK relinquished control of his page. As for the man himself, he's actually made a lot of positive impact with his page/articles, etc. Unfortunately, all of this has been overwhelmingly overshadowed by several of his high-profile mistakes.

I had heard about the possible lawsuit via RUMINT; a random message making an allegation that turned out to be false. The CMSGT (retired I think) called it out directly and the CMSGT's wife runs a family counseling business and there was potential damage to her reputation / business.

Again, the argument of "look how many likes (or on Facebook: shares) I get / got" doesn't mean something is / was a good idea and the lack of judgement / impulse control was why despite his VERY high level of activity he was not asked to be a moderator ... which did rub him the wrong way.

I do hope the lawsuit doesn't get filed, based on what I had heard, he would likely be liable since the guy was not a public figure and there wasn't really any vetting / research before pushing the rumor to 300k+ people.

AF sgt
04-14-2019, 05:13 PM
One long time, formerly very logical poster took to discussions of raping my wife and (at the time) 6-year old daughter. When asked to stop he didn't and this made him even more hostile to any posting I made. Eventually after a vulgar tirade, he was banned.



Dude, you're so delusional. Nobody said shit about raping your wife and 6 year old daughter. The topic was whether a woman was partially to blame if she was sexually assaulted at a frat party (attending by herself) because, though not her fault, she should know better than to put herself in that situation. You disagreed, saying that she should feel safe. I then asked if you'd allow your daughter to be in that situation, as any father with any intelligence would tell their daughter to not put themselves in stupid situations. (I actually hope that's what you teach her. If not, you should be cited for neglect.) That, for some reason, hurt your feelings...and you saw it as saying I thought your daughter and wife should be raped. Can't believe you are actually "in charge" of anything being so ignorant. Anyway, I'd care about another permaban if this forum had anything going for it, but you ruined it long ago.

Good call Rainmaker...

Deuces...

Mjölnir
04-14-2019, 05:48 PM
Dude, you're so delusional. Nobody said shit about raping your wife and 6 year old daughter. The topic was whether a woman was partially to blame if she was sexually assaulted at a frat party (attending by herself) because, though not her fault, she should know better than to put herself in that situation. You disagreed, saying that she should feel safe. I then asked if you'd allow your daughter to be in that situation, as any father with any intelligence would tell their daughter to not put themselves in stupid situations. (I actually hope that's what you teach her. If not, you should be cited for neglect.) That, for some reason, hurt your feelings...and you saw it as saying I thought your daughter and wife should be raped. Can't believe you are actually "in charge" of anything being so ignorant. Anyway, I'd care about another permaban if this forum had anything going for it, but you ruined it long ago.

Good call Rainmaker...

Deuces...

It was pretty clear who you were (even with the new IP) and what you said, even Rainmaker said something to the effect of knocking it off. I figured referencing it a couple times would get your try to defend it. Steve, you had / have a problem with moderators, we had many good / amenable conversations on my other account but your attitude about moderators led you to find any reason to be an ass to me personally. You referenced ... repeatedly ... sexual assault on my wife and daughter. You hide behind a keyboard saying things you would not dare say to someone in real life and rather than admit it ... please, justify it to yourself again and again, say you don't care about being banned but bother to create a new account after two years to come back & post etc.

If you wish to continue to post, please do ... up until now you have been your old self and I do enjoy your input, but please abide by the Guidelines you agreed to when you joined ... both times.

AF sgt
04-14-2019, 06:46 PM
It was pretty clear who you were (even with the new IP) and what you said, even Rainmaker said something to the effect of knocking it off. I figured referencing it a couple times would get your try to defend it. Steve, you had / have a problem with moderators, we had many good / amenable conversations on my other account but your attitude about moderators led you to find any reason to be an ass to me personally. You referenced ... repeatedly ... sexual assault on my wife and daughter. You hide behind a keyboard saying things you would not dare say to someone in real life and rather than admit it ... please, justify it to yourself again and again, say you don't care about being banned but bother to create a new account after two years to come back & post etc.

If you wish to continue to post, please do ... up until now you have been your old self and I do enjoy your input, but please abide by the Guidelines you agreed to when you joined ... both times.

I never, ever referenced sexual assault on your wife. Ever!!! I'll say it for the last time, then I'll drop it. I simply mentioned teaching one's child (whether you or ANY other parent, though I did mention your's directly) to avoid dangerous situations. That's the last post I'll mention anything about it.

I created a new account because I need something to do between fishing and chillin' and relaxing...no other reason.

I don't hide behind my keyboard any more than you do (and I'm sure you hide behind your rank/position at work). There's nothing I wouldn't say to you in person, and in an actual face to face conversation maybe you would have understood the tone of the comment and not overreact like some stereotypical northeasterner (whether you are or not) who feels that you've been "disrespected".

I wasn't exactly hiding who I was...stating phrases almost word for word as before...and your "traps" were extremely obvious, so don't feel like you succeeded in "outing" me...I just realized that this forum is even more dead than it was before...so whether I'm allowed here or not, I'm not gonna lose any sleep.

Have a great day, "Commander"

Mjölnir
04-14-2019, 07:10 PM
You are right, tone and context matter. When buried in with the other personal insults and attacks, I pretty much just took what you said at face value.


Dude, you're so delusional. Nobody said shit about raping your wife and 6 year old daughter.


I never, ever referenced sexual assault on your wife. Ever!!! I'll say it for the last time, then I'll drop it. I simply mentioned teaching one's child (whether you or ANY other parent, though I did mention your's directly) to avoid dangerous situations. That's the last post I'll mention anything about it.

At first you said you never mentioned my wife and kid, now you are changing your excuse, which is where most discussions with you go south; when confronted with being incorrect or inconsistent you want to turn things personal ... which is a violation of the user guidelines that you agreed to.

Under your new account, you have multiple times mentioned moderators / moderation. I have admitted that moderation harmed the forums, maybe you look at your own lack of ability to debate and not take it to a personal level and the effect that had on the forum.

AF sgt
04-15-2019, 05:29 AM
You are right, tone and context matter. When buried in with the other personal insults and attacks, I pretty much just took what you said at face value.





At first you said you never mentioned my wife and kid, now you are changing your excuse, which is where most discussions with you go south; when confronted with being incorrect or inconsistent you want to turn things personal ... which is a violation of the user guidelines that you agreed to.

Under your new account, you have multiple times mentioned moderators / moderation. I have admitted that moderation harmed the forums, maybe you look at your own lack of ability to debate and not take it to a personal level and the effect that had on the forum.

I told you I'm done talking about it. You can think that there was whatever intent in the statements that you want to, and maintain your need to feel disrespected and offended...that's your right...I ain't taking any of it personally...you can talk about my mom, wife, sister, and any other family member you want, in any manner you want, and it isn't gonna bother me...even a little bit...cuz you don't know them...so it's impossible for you to disrespect them.

I can't control what you are offended by and what you aren't, so I'm not even gonna try...

Enjoy work tomorrow, Commander.

Mjölnir
04-15-2019, 08:38 AM
I told you I'm done talking about it. You can think that there was whatever intent in the statements that you want to, and maintain your need to feel disrespected and offended...that's your right...I ain't taking any of it personally...you can talk about my mom, wife, sister, and any other family member you want, in any manner you want, and it isn't gonna bother me...even a little bit...cuz you don't know them...so it's impossible for you to disrespect them.

I can't control what you are offended by and what you aren't, so I'm not even gonna try...

Enjoy work tomorrow, Commander.

And that is the difference in you and I, I wouldn't talk like that about your family ... whether or not I know them or you. It isn't about being offended ... it is basic respect to people.

You are right, MTF used to be a good place to exchange ideas, young military folks would pop in with a question and get an answer from a SNCO or retiree. Gannet used to publish comments from MTF; there were football pools etc., then things like the Rep Wars started. Flame wars left and right, grown adults behaving like kids, young personnel asked questions and were told to shut up. A young spouse asked a question about her husband deploying and at least 3 people asked her to post nudes. Debate went away and all the personal attacks were kicked up to 11.

http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php/9613-BYU-rape-case?highlight=frat+party+rape+sandsjames

Post #35:

Let me ask it this way. Would you caution your daughter not to go to a party at a frat house by herself dressed provocatively? Or would you tell her to go for it because she doesn't need to worry about anything? I know the answer...if you're any kind of a father, you'll tell her to not put herself in dangerous situations. If you don't and your daughter gets raped you can blame yourself. If something happens she could have avoided it. That's all I'm sayin'.

I used to really like talking to you but, you are right, if I were you I wouldn't talk about the issue that changed my opinion of you anymore either, because you can't defend it and have already changed your version of the story from "Nobody said that" to "I never, EVER said that about your wife ... but did directly mention your kid" (and yes, there is a post where you demeaned my wife, I am just getting tired of typing). You can't take being wrong and when you are shown to be wrong you need to attack me and comment on where I am from (you are incorrect), my rank, or my family.

And yes, I still work. My daughter ... the one you discussed assaulting ... in addition to her cranio-facial issues was diagnosed with Leukemia; the prime reason I am still in uniform is the medical coverage for her. She gets world class treatment at Johns Hopkins via the US Family Health Care plan ... what an idiotic dope I am, thinking of my kid before I think of my fishing and me chillin'. People used to come here and vent or discuss issues like that too, instead I am sure you will find a way to work that into the round of personal attacks and blame me or say I invited it for having brought it up at all.

If you want to discuss reviving forum and why it declined ... your mentality is the reason that productive conversation and debate went away. Your mentality is why new members don't join and Gannet won't publish comments from the forums; you can right point a finger at moderation ... but there are far more fingers to be pointed in the direction of your immature, angry and basically poor mentality.

FLAPS
04-15-2019, 12:46 PM
And that is the difference in you and I, I wouldn't talk like that about your family ... whether or not I know them or you. It isn't about being offended ... it is basic respect to people.

You are right, MTF used to be a good place to exchange ideas, young military folks would pop in with a question and get an answer from a SNCO or retiree. Gannet used to publish comments from MTF; there were football pools etc., then things like the Rep Wars started. Flame wars left and right, grown adults behaving like kids, young personnel asked questions and were told to shut up. A young spouse asked a question about her husband deploying and at least 3 people asked her to post nudes. Debate went away and all the personal attacks were kicked up to 11.

http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php/9613-BYU-rape-case?highlight=frat+party+rape+sandsjames

Post #35:


I used to really like talking to you but, you are right, if I were you I wouldn't talk about the issue that changed my opinion of you anymore either, because you can't defend it and have already changed your version of the story from "Nobody said that" to "I never, EVER said that about your wife ... but did directly mention your kid" (and yes, there is a post where you demeaned my wife, I am just getting tired of typing). You can't take being wrong and when you are shown to be wrong you need to attack me and comment on where I am from (you are incorrect), my rank, or my family.

And yes, I still work. My daughter ... the one you discussed assaulting ... in addition to her cranio-facial issues was diagnosed with Leukemia; the prime reason I am still in uniform is the medical coverage for her. She gets world class treatment at Johns Hopkins via the US Family Health Care plan ... what an idiotic dope I am, thinking of my kid before I think of my fishing and me chillin'. People used to come here and vent or discuss issues like that too, instead I am sure you will find a way to work that into the round of personal attacks and blame me or say I invited it for having brought it up at all.

If you want to discuss reviving forum and why it declined ... your mentality is the reason that productive conversation and debate went away. Your mentality is why new members don't join and Gannet won't publish comments from the forums; you can right point a finger at moderation ... but there are far more fingers to be pointed in the direction of your immature, angry and basically poor mentality.

Ah....the good 'ole days. All we need now is a rep meter. Eff this. I'm out.

AF sgt
04-15-2019, 03:23 PM
And that is the difference in you and I, I wouldn't talk like that about your family ... whether or not I know them or you. It isn't about being offended ... it is basic respect to people.

You are right, MTF used to be a good place to exchange ideas, young military folks would pop in with a question and get an answer from a SNCO or retiree. Gannet used to publish comments from MTF; there were football pools etc., then things like the Rep Wars started. Flame wars left and right, grown adults behaving like kids, young personnel asked questions and were told to shut up. A young spouse asked a question about her husband deploying and at least 3 people asked her to post nudes. Debate went away and all the personal attacks were kicked up to 11.

http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php/9613-BYU-rape-case?highlight=frat+party+rape+sandsjames

Post #35:


I used to really like talking to you but, you are right, if I were you I wouldn't talk about the issue that changed my opinion of you anymore either, because you can't defend it and have already changed your version of the story from "Nobody said that" to "I never, EVER said that about your wife ... but did directly mention your kid" (and yes, there is a post where you demeaned my wife, I am just getting tired of typing). You can't take being wrong and when you are shown to be wrong you need to attack me and comment on where I am from (you are incorrect), my rank, or my family.

And yes, I still work. My daughter ... the one you discussed assaulting ... in addition to her cranio-facial issues was diagnosed with Leukemia; the prime reason I am still in uniform is the medical coverage for her. She gets world class treatment at Johns Hopkins via the US Family Health Care plan ... what an idiotic dope I am, thinking of my kid before I think of my fishing and me chillin'. People used to come here and vent or discuss issues like that too, instead I am sure you will find a way to work that into the round of personal attacks and blame me or say I invited it for having brought it up at all.

If you want to discuss reviving forum and why it declined ... your mentality is the reason that productive conversation and debate went away. Your mentality is why new members don't join and Gannet won't publish comments from the forums; you can right point a finger at moderation ... but there are far more fingers to be pointed in the direction of your immature, angry and basically poor mentality.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Nothing I can do about your feelings. If you want respect, you've got plenty of people paid to show you that. I know an entire political party you can join who claims to be all about that sort of thing.

If you want honesty and truth, then I'd be glad to stay and be the "same person I used to be" (which never changed in the first place).

It's entirely up to you, of course (I know you like hearing that sort of thing). Honestly, I'm good either way. Whatever happens, just let it go...and if you can't let it go, make somebody go mop...sorry...swab something until you feel better.

Mjölnir
04-15-2019, 03:54 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way. Nothing I can do about your feelings. If you want respect, you've got plenty of people paid to show you that. I know an entire political party you can join who claims to be all about that sort of thing.

If you want honesty and truth, then I'd be glad to stay and be the "same person I used to be" (which never changed in the first place).

It's entirely up to you, of course (I know you like hearing that sort of thing). Honestly, I'm good either way. Whatever happens, just let it go...and if you can't let it go, make somebody go mop...sorry...swab something until you feel better.

Steve, You said you didn't say antyhing about my daughter getting raped, I posted exactly what you said ... you refuse own it ... for some reason you have an excuse for everything, now you want it to be political.

Better than having someone mop ... I can give you a bit more time to go fish and chill more ...

But you are right ... maybe I do feel a bit better now.

I don't care if you respect me or not, being disrepectful to my kid ... you crossed a line. You are too small of a man to admit it.

Rainmaker
04-15-2019, 05:52 PM
Good call Rainmaker...

Deuces...

Well it didn't take Nancy Drew and the Hardy boys to figure it out SJ. Now, i just need to find where the other family that I'm supporting lives... Just got my taxes done.

SeaLawyer
04-15-2019, 06:56 PM
Just one family? I supported a TRIBE last year (and three years preceeding). This is the first year in about five years I'm getting something back... Thanks to Trump's new tax laws.

Rainmaker
04-16-2019, 12:38 AM
Just one family? I supported a TRIBE last year (and three years preceeding). This is the first year in about five years I'm getting something back... Thanks to Trump's new tax laws.

Well i fared a little better than last year.

my taxable income went up $10K. But, Fed Taxes owed dropped by over $2800. All told had $29K FITW thru payroll deductions. And still had to stroke a check to Uncle for another $1300 today.... MAGA..

FLAPS
04-16-2019, 11:24 AM
Well i fared a little better than last year.

my taxable income went up $10K. But, Fed Taxes owed dropped by over $2800. All told had $29K FITW thru payroll deductions. And still had to stroke a check to Uncle for another $1300 today.... MAGA..

I don't remember the exact numbers, but with the higher deduction I definitely paid less in taxes. I used that money (approx. $2,000) to take my wife to some spring training games in FL. From the airfare, stadium, vendors, lodging, to food, many businesses benefited from my tax reduction. It's a shame that the media is spinning the tax cuts as a rich-people only benefit, when that's just a flat out lie.


What also chaps my ass is the assertion that a reduced tax return is somehow evidence that there was no tax cut for lower income earners. Again, the media is spewing lies and they know it. What they should do is explain to people that the tax cuts resulted in lower tax withholdings, thus lower tax returns. While they're at it, they should also explain that tax refunds aren't some kind of annual bonus, but rather an interest free loan that poor people give to the government every year.

Mjölnir
04-16-2019, 03:02 PM
I don't remember the exact numbers, but with the higher deduction I definitely paid less in taxes. I used that money (approx. $2,000) to take my wife to some spring training games in FL. From the airfare, stadium, vendors, lodging, to food, many businesses benefited from my tax reduction. It's a shame that the media is spinning the tax cuts as a rich-people only benefit, when that's just a flat out lie.

Our Federal Taxes went up a bit. We had reworked our deductions so we only ended up paying <$1000 to settle up after our paycheck withholding. My State Taxes (LA) went up a lot ... don't know why and I need to research that.


What also chaps my ass is the assertion that a reduced tax return is somehow evidence that there was no tax cut for lower income earners. Again, the media is spewing lies and they know it. What they should do is explain to people that the tax cuts resulted in lower tax withholdings, thus lower tax returns. While they're at it, they should also explain that tax refunds aren't some kind of annual bonus, but rather an interest free loan that poor people give to the government every year.

Concur, many people I know were spouting a smaller return as evidence of higher taxes.