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retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 04:22 PM
I see in the news where there are problems at some bases with the privatized housing, i.e poorly kept, insect infestations, etc. Complaints of lack of accountability. Any thoughts?

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 04:37 PM
I see in the news where there are problems at some bases with the privatized housing, i.e poorly kept, insect infestations, etc. Complaints of lack of accountability. Any thoughts?

I never cared for the idea of it being privatized. First, the contractor was supposed to be responsible for taking care of front yards (mowing, etc) as it was part of the contract. However, there were several times they wouldn't make it around and the tenants would still be the ones getting in trouble for it. Also, there was also the fact that the housing had to be maintained at a certain capacity, so if it wasn't then retirees were allowed to live in them and if it still wasn't then civilians could be allowed on base. I don't know if that ever happened anywhere, but I don't like the idea of it.

Also, maintaining the home (as you mentioned) became a problem. People could no longer just run down to the self help store and get stuff to take care of minor issues. It all fell under the contract, and if a tenant decided to "fog" the house, it could be considered breach of contract. We would get calls all the time about electrical problems, bugs, etc, and all we could do was give them the number for the contractor. Very frustrating.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 04:43 PM
I've never dealt with or lived in privatized housing but my first reaction would be if this is contracted government housing who in the military is overseeing the performance of the contract?

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 04:49 PM
I've never dealt with or lived in privatized housing but my first reaction would be if this is contracted government housing who in the military is overseeing the performance of the contract?

You still have the base housing office. And the contracting office still oversees everything, though there's not a whole lot they can do.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 05:13 PM
You still have the base housing office. And the contracting office still oversees everything, though there's not a whole lot they can do.
If there's not a lot the contracting office can't do a whole lot the it sounds like the contract wasn't properly written to address the remedies for when the vendor isn't in compliance with the contract.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 05:16 PM
You still have the base housing office. And the contracting office still oversees everything, though there's not a whole lot they can do.
Privatized housing came in after my time; but from what I know about it, I doubt if the local contracting office has much to do with it.

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 05:20 PM
Privatized housing came in after my time; but from what I know about it, I doubt if the local contracting office has much to do with it.They just oversee it, making sure it's adhered to, but they don't have anything to do with writing it. I'm fairly certain there's a specific contract Air Force wide.

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 05:21 PM
If there's not a lot the contracting office can't do a whole lot the it sounds like the contract wasn't properly written to address the remedies for when the vendor isn't in compliance with the contract.

What makes it difficult is that contractor has no interest in anything military related, other than taking the money.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 05:25 PM
If there's not a lot the contracting office can't do a whole lot the it sounds like the contract wasn't properly written to address the remedies for when the vendor isn't in compliance with the contract.

This privatized housing is a different animal. I think that the contractor owns or leases the housing. They are paid by the member's BAH by some type of allotment system.

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 05:29 PM
This privatized housing is a different animal. I think that the contractor owns or leases the housing. They are paid by the member's BAH by some type of allotment system.

One good thing that comes from it is that the days of having the AC set to 60 degrees and the doors and windows wide open are gone, because there are limits for usage. And, yes, the BAH actually shows up on the LES, but isn't in the paycheck.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 05:47 PM
This privatized housing is a different animal. I think that the contractor owns or leases the housing. They are paid by the member's BAH by some type of allotment system.
It would seem if the housing is contracted by the military then there has to be some process for the renters (military members) to address problems to the company owning the houses. Depending upon the state, there is a contractual obligation between the owner and the tenant meaning the tenants have rights to live in a habitable home and the owner must ensure the habitability of the home. Even though the privatized housing is contracted with the federal government (military) I don't think that changes the civilian company's obligations to adhere to state law.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 05:51 PM
You still have the base housing office. And the contracting office still oversees everything, though there's not a whole lot they can do.

I had to look it up but the program is handle by AFCEC.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 05:59 PM
It would seem if the housing is contracted by the military then there has to be some process for the renters (military members) to address problems to the company owning the houses. Depending upon the state, there is a contractual obligation between the owner and the tenant meaning the tenants have rights to live in a habitable home and the owner must ensure the habitability of the home. Even though the privatized housing is contracted with the federal government (military) I don't think that changes the civilian company's obligations to adhere to state law.

That is possible, but I doubt if the State would try to enforce a federal program. Also, these are on federal property.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 06:23 PM
If there weren't some kind of enforcement provisions, originally, it's pretty hard to make changes at this point. It's too bad there wasn't some kind of incentive built in, i.e. hold out a percentage of the BAH and not pay it until after some kind of annual performance appraisal. That works on other types of contacts.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 06:23 PM
That is possible, but I doubt if the State would try to enforce a federal program. Also, these are on federal property.
retiredAFcivvy referenced AFCEC and I followed the links at the website. There is a Resident Bill of Rights and among the items included in it are:

1. The right to resolve disputes according to the dispute resolution procedures outlined in the tenant lease.

2. Residents have the right to receive maintenance services from the Project Owner while living in privatized housing to include"
a. The right to timely, courteous and responsive customer service, maintenance and repair performed by qualified maintenance performers.
b. The right to immediate attention from the maintenance staff for emergency service calls, especially those for structural, utility or mechanical problems that could cause loss of life or property or serious damage affecting health, safety or security.

The Installation Commander can also take action on the privatized housing matters.

Here's the link for the Resident's Bill of Rights.

https://www.afcec.af.mil/Portals/17/documents/Housing/AFD-130411-036.pdf

garhkal
02-20-2019, 06:26 PM
I never cared for the idea of it being privatized. First, the contractor was supposed to be responsible for taking care of front yards (mowing, etc) as it was part of the contract. However, there were several times they wouldn't make it around and the tenants would still be the ones getting in trouble for it. Also, there was also the fact that the housing had to be maintained at a certain capacity, so if it wasn't then retirees were allowed to live in them and if it still wasn't then civilians could be allowed on base. I don't know if that ever happened anywhere, but I don't like the idea of it.

Also, maintaining the home (as you mentioned) became a problem. People could no longer just run down to the self help store and get stuff to take care of minor issues. It all fell under the contract, and if a tenant decided to "fog" the house, it could be considered breach of contract. We would get calls all the time about electrical problems, bugs, etc, and all we could do was give them the number for the contractor. Very frustrating.

I've heard similar complaints. Not just on maintenance or repairs, but the contractors "Fixing" up a house next door and leaving trash in YOUR yard, that you'd then get bitched at for.



You still have the base housing office. And the contracting office still oversees everything, though there's not a whole lot they can do.If there's not a lot the contracting office can't do a whole lot the it sounds like the contract wasn't properly written to address the remedies for when the vendor isn't in compliance with the contract.

Exactly, what's the point in having a contract, if you can't do much about it when the CONTRACTOR breaks his contract??

LogDog
02-20-2019, 06:29 PM
That is possible, but I doubt if the State would try to enforce a federal program. Also, these are on federal property.
The military usually works within the framework of state laws so they could either allow disputes be settled at the state or federal level. Concerning renter rights, I could see where the states would be interested in what is going on in their states regardless of whether the housing is rented to a civilian or a federal agency. Having different standards for people renting so close to each other would lead to would promote a lessening of renter's or owner's rights.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 06:36 PM
I've heard similar complaints. Not just on maintenance or repairs, but the contractors "Fixing" up a house next door and leaving trash in YOUR yard, that you'd then get bitched at for.



Exactly, what's the point in having a contract, if you can't do much about it when the CONTRACTOR breaks his contract??
If a contractor breaks his contract what punishment does he receives and who delivers it? From a previous post linking to the Resident's Bill of Rights, it appears the Installation Commander is the co-chair of the installation's Management Review Committee overseeing the privatized housing agreement.

If there are problems of the privatized housing contractors not maintaining the housing under their contract then the onus would also be on the Management Review Committee.

retiredAFcivvy
02-20-2019, 06:39 PM
retiredAFcivvy referenced AFCEC and I followed the links at the website. There is a Resident Bill of Rights and among the items included in it are:

1. The right to resolve disputes according to the dispute resolution procedures outlined in the tenant lease.

2. Residents have the right to receive maintenance services from the Project Owner while living in privatized housing to include"
a. The right to timely, courteous and responsive customer service, maintenance and repair performed by qualified maintenance performers.
b. The right to immediate attention from the maintenance staff for emergency service calls, especially those for structural, utility or mechanical problems that could cause loss of life or property or serious damage affecting health, safety or security.

The Installation Commander can also take action on the privatized housing matters.

Here's the link for the Resident's Bill of Rights.

https://www.afcec.af.mil/Portals/17/documents/Housing/AFD-130411-036.pdf

Sounds like maybe there are some remedies and just not being utilized. With all the attention this is getting that might start happening.

LogDog
02-20-2019, 06:50 PM
Sounds like maybe there are some remedies and just not being utilized. With all the attention this is getting that might start happening.
I'm sure there are a number of Installation Commanders scurrying to figure out what to do now that Congress is looking into it.

Bos Mutus
02-20-2019, 07:34 PM
I'm sure there are a number of Installation Commanders scurrying to figure out what to do now that Congress is looking into it.

SECAF and CSAF have directed all wing commanders to conduct a 100% review of military housing.

Our wing is having a mandatory military housing all-call this week.

I'd say it's getting attention, focus appears to be health and safety concerns..


I lived in privatized housing once...and it was a good experience. Also, the new houses that were built were by far the nicest ones I've seen in my career...that was almost 10 years ago though. At our base, active duty, retirees, govt. civilians and even base contractors are allowed to live in base housing. I don't think any non-base-affiliated civilians are allowed, but have heard of that at other installations.

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 08:36 PM
I had to look it up but the program is handle by AFCEC. Yep, and base housing office and all other things CE (a lot of the contracting) falls under AFCEC.

AF sgt
02-20-2019, 08:41 PM
At our base, active duty, retirees, govt. civilians and even base contractors are allowed to live in base housing. I don't think any non-base-affiliated civilians are allowed, but have heard of that at other installations. I'm pretty sure that if occupancy was to drop below a certain point that non-base-affiliated people are next in line. It'll probably never happen, as it's pretty easy to maintain the numbers needed. The non-affiliated would all have to go through a security check if it got that far.

FLAPS
02-20-2019, 08:49 PM
I lived in privatized housing at Langley, and for the most part they did a pretty good job in responding to the few maintenance calls I had. The house itself was built in 1922 (I think), and had recently been renovated. With the fireplace and hardwood floors, I must admit it still ranks as one of the nicest homes I've ever lived in. That said, my only real suggestion (not a complaint since I knew this going in) is they stop pinning the rental cost to your rank. I lived in a twin house as a Major and my next door neighbor was a MSgt. Great neighbor, of course, but I don't think it was fair to charge him so much less for the same house/floor plan. Instead, they should base costs on the market value...regardless of rank.

Bos Mutus
02-21-2019, 03:17 AM
I'm pretty sure that if occupancy was to drop below a certain point that non-base-affiliated people are next in line. It'll probably never happen, as it's pretty easy to maintain the numbers needed. The non-affiliated would all have to go through a security check if it got that far.

I think it is market-dependent, some locations base housing is more attractive than others. I think they are cutting back on what BAH covers as far as off-base, ie 85% of costs vs 100%, making on base more attractive in high cost areas....but yes, there is a security check

Bos Mutus
02-21-2019, 03:21 AM
I lived in privatized housing at Langley, and for the most part they did a pretty good job in responding to the few maintenance calls I had. The house itself was built in 1922 (I think), and had recently been renovated. With the fireplace and hardwood floors, I must admit it still ranks as one of the nicest homes I've ever lived in. That said, my only real suggestion (not a complaint since I knew this going in) is they stop pinning the rental cost to your rank. I lived in a twin house as a Major and my next door neighbor was a MSgt. Great neighbor, of course, but I don't think it was fair to charge him so much less for the same house/floor plan. Instead, they should base costs on the market value...regardless of rank.

I was at Langley, too, in Bethel Housing...and was in ‘Chief Housing’ while across the street SrA lived in the same floor plan. I think we had some upgrades like nice tile flooring vs commercial square tiles. But, we got offered really nice new housing which were really nice houses....I ended up retiring before I could move in.

AF sgt
02-21-2019, 04:41 PM
I was at Langley, too,

I'm sorry. I can only imagine what that's like. Ramstein is the only thing that I can think of that compares, with 5 different HQ on one base, as well as being THE thoroughfare for everything. For Gods sake, don't let a leaf blow onto the road, otherwise the street sweeper becomes the top priority on base. I can't imagine how many man-hours were wasted for beatification. And I don't just mean the normal base beautification stuff. I mean the excess beautification stuff. At least Ramstein didn't have the traffic, though, that Langley and the surrounding nightmare has.

FLAPS
02-22-2019, 11:15 AM
I'm sorry. I can only imagine what that's like. Ramstein is the only thing that I can think of that compares, with 5 different HQ on one base, as well as being THE thoroughfare for everything. For Gods sake, don't let a leaf blow onto the road, otherwise the street sweeper becomes the top priority on base. I can't imagine how many man-hours were wasted for beatification. And I don't just mean the normal base beautification stuff. I mean the excess beautification stuff. At least Ramstein didn't have the traffic, though, that Langley and the surrounding nightmare has.


I thought Langley was pretty nice, especially being right on the water. Living on base, I either fished next to the on-base marina, or I took my Kayak out for a ride. Also, unlike my base cleanup days as an Amn at Ramstein, I never once saw uniformed people on cleanup duty at Langley. Perhaps this went on in the 1st FW's area, but not anywhere around the ACC campus. Traffic only sucked for those who had to commute, especially through the tunnels coming from Norfolk. I walked to work, which was one of the few benefits for forking over my entire BAH for housing.

AF sgt
02-22-2019, 02:06 PM
I thought Langley was pretty nice, especially being right on the water. Living on base, I either fished next to the on-base marina, or I took my Kayak out for a ride. Also, unlike my base cleanup days as an Amn at Ramstein, I never once saw uniformed people on cleanup duty at Langley. Perhaps this went on in the 1st FW's area, but not anywhere around the ACC campus. Traffic only sucked for those who had to commute, especially through the tunnels coming from Norfolk. I walked to work, which was one of the few benefits for forking over my entire BAH for housing.

Some people love it, some people hate it. Most of the people I knew from there lived off base and had a 1 to 2 hour commute and all talked about the constant dog and pony shows. Most loved the area for off duty stuff, just hated it for work purposes.

Bos Mutus
02-22-2019, 04:03 PM
Some people love it, some people hate it. Most of the people I knew from there lived off base and had a 1 to 2 hour commute and all talked about the constant dog and pony shows. Most loved the area for off duty stuff, just hated it for work purposes.

I enjoyed my time there quite a lot. I worked on ACC staff, so did not have all this dog and pony stuff....I worked 1/4 mile from the marina, so could bring my boat to work with me...get off work at 3:30, have the wife grab bait and meet me and we'd be on the water by 3:45. During the summer, it stays light to 10:00 pm, so we could get in a good day of fishing during the week...and we were out on the bay almost every weekend during the summer.

Also, Virginia is a nice location for day or weekend trips...D.C., NYC, Phil. Carolinas, Atlanta, etc. all reasonable drives.

AF sgt
02-22-2019, 04:20 PM
I enjoyed my time there quite a lot. I worked on ACC staff, so did not have all this dog and pony stuff....I worked 1/4 mile from the marina, so could bring my boat to work with me...get off work at 3:30, have the wife grab bait and meet me and we'd be on the water by 3:45. During the summer, it stays light to 10:00 pm, so we could get in a good day of fishing during the week...and we were out on the bay almost every weekend during the summer.

Also, Virginia is a nice location for day or weekend trips...D.C., NYC, Phil. Carolinas, Atlanta, etc. all reasonable drives.

Some day I hope to do an East Coast vacation. Closest I've been is staying at Norfolk NAS overnight as a stopover on my way to somewhere a little warmer. That's when I realized how great the quality of life stuff was in the AF, as the Navy dorm room had 3 beds in one room with zero space.

LogDog
02-22-2019, 05:48 PM
SECAF and CSAF have directed all wing commanders to conduct a 100% review of military housing.

Our wing is having a mandatory military housing all-call this week.

I'd say it's getting attention, focus appears to be health and safety concerns..


I lived in privatized housing once...and it was a good experience. Also, the new houses that were built were by far the nicest ones I've seen in my career...that was almost 10 years ago though. At our base, active duty, retirees, govt. civilians and even base contractors are allowed to live in base housing. I don't think any non-base-affiliated civilians are allowed, but have heard of that at other installations.
Stars and Stripes is reporting bases in the Far East are going door-to-door and holding town meetings to get feedback on the condition of base housing. This is also being done in Europe and they have a March 15th date to complete their survey.

https://www.stripes.com/news/officials-knock-on-doors-to-ask-pacific-base-residents-about-housing-issues-1.569740


(https://www.stripes.com/news/officials-knock-on-doors-to-ask-pacific-base-residents-about-housing-issues-1.569740)https://www.stripes.com/news/housing-horrors-prompt-survey-of-us-military-quarters-across-europe-1.569581

Bos Mutus
02-22-2019, 06:08 PM
Some day I hope to do an East Coast vacation.

Go in the fall.

I've never been to Boston and that is on my list...I don't know how I've never made it there because I grew up in NJ, not too far, and had assignments in NJ and VA...been all the way up Niagara Falls, Montreal, just never managed to get to Boston, I really should have.

AF sgt
02-22-2019, 06:24 PM
Go in the fall.

I've never been to Boston and that is on my list...I don't know how I've never made it there because I grew up in NJ, not too far, and had assignments in NJ and VA...been all the way up Niagara Falls, Montreal, just never managed to get to Boston, I really should have. Would love to, as well as Rhode Island, Maine, etc. Also all the landmarks in the region. I don't think I'd want to live there, but I definitely want to see it. Plus, I'd love to do a lot of yard sales, auctions, etc., in the area as there would be opportunities to get things you'd never find on the West Coast.

retiredAFcivvy
02-22-2019, 10:51 PM
Some day I hope to do an East Coast vacation. Closest I've been is staying at Norfolk NAS overnight as a stopover on my way to somewhere a little warmer. That's when I realized how great the quality of life stuff was in the AF, as the Navy dorm room had 3 beds in one room with zero space.

I stayed in VOQ at Millington NAS once and I know what you mean.

AF sgt
02-22-2019, 11:23 PM
I stayed in VOQ at Millington NAS once and I know what you mean.

I was shocked because we never had more than 4 or 5 people in an entire tent downrange. But I guess if you spend any length of time on a ship, simply sharing a dorm room at home station with 2 others is not a big deal.