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AF sgt
01-15-2019, 05:55 PM
So, Cleopatra "trended" yesterday. They are looking to make a new movie, and talked about have either Lady GaGa or Angelina Jolie as the lead. That's not why it trended, though. It trended because of people bitching about "whitewashing". Yes, now having a white actress playing a white character is whitewashing. Guess a lot of people think there were a mass of black people running around ancient Greece. This is how far we've come.

Mjölnir
01-15-2019, 08:22 PM
If you want historical accuracy, the ancient Egyptians were / appeared to be distinctly what we would associate with a middle eastern appearance ... neither Caucasian nor African. Cleopatra herself was Ptolemaic (Macedonian) so she was Greek but the heritage of her mother and maternal grandmother are unknown but is is highly unlikely that she had ‘African’ ancestry as the Ptolemies were considered outsiders ... how she really looked is anyone’s guess.

AF sgt
01-15-2019, 09:09 PM
If you want historical accuracy, the ancient Egyptians were / appeared to be distinctly what we would associate with a middle eastern appearance ... neither Caucasian nor African. Cleopatra herself was Ptolemaic (Macedonian) so she was Greek but the heritage of her mother and maternal grandmother are unknown but is is highly unlikely that she had ‘African’ ancestry as the Ptolemies were considered outsiders ... how she really looked is anyone’s guess.

It's been theorized, with some evidence researched by Hilke Thur, that her half sister is, at least, half African. However, there is zero evidence that Cleo is, so the argument for "whitewashing" is nothing more than a knee jerk, programmed response.

Mjölnir
01-15-2019, 09:23 PM
It's been theorized, with some evidence researched by Hilke Thur, that her half sister is, at least, half African. However, there is zero evidence that Cleo is, so the argument for "whitewashing" is nothing more than a knee jerk, programmed response.

There really is no way to no way to know, in all likelihood she had a typical Macedonian appearance, which isn’t Angelina Jolie.

If you want likely historical accuracy then a Greek or Turkish etc. if you want a higher profile film ($$$) go with the big name.

LogDog
01-15-2019, 09:54 PM
One thing about Cleopatra was she wasn't a beautiful as legend has it. From the coins found with her image she isn't beautiful by our standards today. It may be she knew how to seduce men with the power she held and her wiles.

Rainmaker
01-15-2019, 09:58 PM
There really is no way to no way to know, in all likelihood she had a typical Macedonian appearance, which isn’t Angelina Jolie.

If you want likely historical accuracy then a Greek or Turkish etc. if you want a higher profile film ($$$) go with the big name.

People of modern Greece and Turkey have little connection with The ancient Greeks who were of pure Hellenic origin.....It's a pretty safe bet that Cleopatra didn't look like Beyonce.

Rainmaker
01-15-2019, 09:59 PM
so yes, now having a white actress playing a white character is whitewashing. Guess a lot of people think there were a mass of black people running around ancient greece. This is how far we've come.
we waz kangz n shiet...

Mjölnir
01-15-2019, 10:52 PM
People of modern Greece and Turkey have little connection with The ancient Greeks who were of pure Hellenic origin.....It's a pretty safe bet that Cleopatra didn't look like Beyonce.

Cleopatra wasn’t more Macedonian (7 or 8 generations?) than Ancient Greek (Athenian etc.) which puts her closer to modern ‘Greek’ than say Balkan. Not knowing about her mother makes it hard to have any real idea. Just saying that the likelihood is that she would have had that appearance; concur 100% that she likely wasn’t African or a Beyoncé look alike (ancient Egyptians weren’t either ... at least not the royal line or aristocracy — that’s a super-myth).

To the original point whitewashing), to hav the highest likely historical accuracy, she wouldn’t be portrayed by a Caucasian actress (you also wouldn’t cast an Irish actor as Alexander of Macedon ... Looking at you Oliver Stone.) Is it a big deal? Are you trying to make a historically accurate / likely film / documentary or trying to sell a lot of tickets?

AF sgt
01-15-2019, 11:04 PM
Cleopatra wasn’t more Macedonian (7 or 8 generations?) than Ancient Greek (Athenian etc.) which puts her closer to modern ‘Greek’ than say Balkan. Not knowing about her mother makes it hard to have any real idea. Just saying that the likelihood is that she would have had that appearance; concur 100% that she likely wasn’t African or a Beyoncé look alike (ancient Egyptians weren’t either ... at least not the royal line or aristocracy — that’s a super-myth).

To the original point whitewashing), to hav the highest likely historical accuracy, she wouldn’t be portrayed by a Caucasian actress (you also wouldn’t cast an Irish actor as Alexander of Macedon ... Looking at you Oliver Stone.) Is it a big deal? Are you trying to make a historically accurate / likely film / documentary or trying to sell a lot of tickets?

Sell tickets, for sure. I just tire quickly of those claiming "historically accurate" and referring to "whitewashing" while at the same time lauding the cast of "Hamilton". Kind of lose credibility.

Rainmaker
01-15-2019, 11:17 PM
to hav the highest likely historical accuracy, she wouldn’t be portrayed by a Caucasian actress (you also wouldn’t cast an Irish actor as Alexander of Macedon ... Looking at you Oliver Stone.) Is it a big deal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra#/media/File:Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg

Her skin looks pretty white to me.

Rainmaker
01-15-2019, 11:20 PM
One thing about Cleopatra was she wasn't a beautiful as legend has it. From the coins found with her image she isn't beautiful by our standards today. .

I'd hit it!

Mjölnir
01-15-2019, 11:27 PM
I'd hit it!

That’s baaaaaaaaad

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a492/a492_thumb.jpg

LogDog
01-16-2019, 10:51 PM
I'd hit it!
Of that, I have no doubt. :D