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View Full Version : Air Force fires three Laughlin AFB commanders over 'chronic leadership failures'



Bos Mutus
12-04-2018, 05:30 PM
WASHINGTON — The Air Force removed three top commanders at Laughlin Air Force Base on Wednesday citing concerns about dangerous and threatening behavior at the major pilot training installation in Texas, the service’s Air Education and Training Command announced. The chief of AETC, Lt. Gen. Steven Kwast, fired Col. Charles Velino, the commander of the 47th Flying Training Wing, and the commanders of its operations group and flying training squadron citing “chronic leadership failures” raised in an investigation into widespread officer misconduct within the unit, according to an Air Force statement released Wednesday. The statement did not name the commanders of the operations group or the flying training squadron.

https://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/air-force-fires-three-laughlin-afb-commanders-over-chronic-leadership-failures-1.554498


So, apparently, this had to do with drinking 'shots' and giving out pilot call signs....a normal practice, I guess. But one female pilot was given a 'vulgar' call sign that was inappropriate. The pilot did not complain about it or think it was a big deal...but somehow word got up and house was cleaned.

More to the story, I'm sure...there was also something about a threat being given to someone....no details on who threatened who or why.

Call signs should probably be somewhat professional since it actually follows the pilot through their career....I think it's a cool tradition, but always some knuckleheads will mess it up for everyone.

Mjölnir
12-05-2018, 09:46 AM
The pilot did not complain about it or think it was a big deal...but somehow word got up and house was cleaned.

Someone found it inappropriate.

Agree that not only do call signs follow pilots / aircrew, but appear in logs, transcripts etc. Guidance has been out for some time on call signs not being vulgar, offensive etc.

Mjölnir
12-05-2018, 09:46 AM
The pilot did not complain about it or think it was a big deal...but somehow word got up and house was cleaned.

Someone found it inappropriate.

Agree that not only do call signs follow pilots / aircrew, but appear in logs, transcripts etc. Guidance has been out for some time on call signs not being vulgar, offensive etc.

FLAPS
12-05-2018, 12:21 PM
Someone found it inappropriate.

Agree that not only do call signs follow pilots / aircrew, but appear in logs, transcripts etc. Guidance has been out for some time on call signs not being vulgar, offensive etc.

While at DM in the early 2000's, a female wing safety office Major gave a CC Call briefing and introduced herself (A-10 pilot) by saying, "as you can see on the slide, my call-sign is 'RAGS," but long story so don't ask me why." Not sure if she's still in, but I'm guessing today's LT's probably wouldn't be allowed to have that call-sign.

Mjölnir
12-05-2018, 09:53 PM
While at DM in the early 2000's, a female wing safety office Major gave a CC Call briefing and introduced herself (A-10 pilot) by saying, "as you can see on the slide, my call-sign is 'RAGS," but long story so don't ask me why." Not sure if she's still in, but I'm guessing today's LT's probably wouldn't be allowed to have that call-sign.

On its face "RAGS" doesn't sound so bad. I have seen CSs like QUEEF, WHOREMONGER, and once ... DILDO, none of which I think were / are appropriate. Not knowing the specifics of the CS in the OP it is hard to really know if this is PC run wild or an appropriate relief.

garhkal
12-06-2018, 04:30 AM
Someone found it inappropriate.


That's something i've always hated about this whole PC culture bull.. How i can say something to you, and even if YOU ARE Not offended, but someone else, who wasn't even there got offended, i get done for..

Mjölnir
12-06-2018, 10:59 AM
That's something i've always hated about this whole PC culture bull.. How i can say something to you, and even if YOU ARE Not offended, but someone else, who wasn't even there got offended, i get done for..

In a mixed / non private environment, it really doesn’t matter. I would argue that isn’t PC, but basic courtesy.

Mjölnir
12-06-2018, 10:59 AM
That's something i've always hated about this whole PC culture bull.. How i can say something to you, and even if YOU ARE Not offended, but someone else, who wasn't even there got offended, i get done for..

In a mixed / non private environment, it really doesn’t matter. I would argue that isn’t PC, but basic courtesy.

Bos Mutus
12-06-2018, 12:17 PM
That's something i've always hated about this whole PC culture bull.. How i can say something to you, and even if YOU ARE Not offended, but someone else, who wasn't even there got offended, i get done for..

Gah...have to maintain a professional work environment.

garhkal
12-06-2018, 07:26 PM
In a mixed / non private environment, it really doesn’t matter. I would argue that isn’t PC, but basic courtesy.

I disagree. Especially if the person whining about being offended, wasn't even THERE For when you said it.

And with all the crap people these days, seem to get offended by, that would almost make it to where you might as well not speak to a single person in ear shot of anyone else, just to avoid the potential to not offend anyone, anywhere, ever..

Mjölnir
12-06-2018, 08:10 PM
I disagree. Especially if the person whining about being offended, wasn't even THERE For when you said it.

And with all the crap people these days, seem to get offended by, that would almost make it to where you might as well not speak to a single person in ear shot of anyone else, just to avoid the potential to not offend anyone, anywhere, ever..

It is about a work environment that is available / confortable for everyone ... even if they aren't there at the time.

If you feel like you can’t talk to someone while in earshot of someone else ... that may mean that what you are saying probably doesn’t belong at work.

Bos Mutus
12-07-2018, 05:29 PM
I disagree. Especially if the person whining about being offended, wasn't even THERE For when you said it.

And with all the crap people these days, seem to get offended by, that would almost make it to where you might as well not speak to a single person in ear shot of anyone else, just to avoid the potential to not offend anyone, anywhere, ever..

So, when you find out second-hand that your boss sits around bashing conservatives and telling anti-Christian jokes when you're not around...that's okay, cuz you're not there to be offended?

garhkal
12-08-2018, 05:20 AM
Since i am agnostic (i've mentioned that a few times in the past), no i wouldn't be offended if he said that, especially if i wasn't there..

FLAPS
12-09-2018, 11:53 AM
That's something i've always hated about this whole PC culture bull.. How i can say something to you, and even if YOU ARE Not offended, but someone else, who wasn't even there got offended, i get done for..

Progressives (not traditional DEMS) want to punish or outright ban ANY speech 'deemed' offensive, and unfortunately that sentiment has to a degree spread into the mainstream military. Whether it's a "baby it's cold outside" song, Rudolph's harassment, or the EU's proposed banning of so-called offensive Mohammed comments as hate speech, I think the PC culture is only going to get worse. Younger folks are more indoctrinated into believing free speech doesn't apply to hate speech, and hate speech can be a label you can apply to anything subjectively deemed offensive.

garhkal
12-09-2018, 06:33 PM
Progressives (not traditional DEMS) want to punish or outright ban ANY speech 'deemed' offensive, and unfortunately that sentiment has to a degree spread into the mainstream military. Whether it's a "baby it's cold outside" song, Rudolph's harassment, or the EU's proposed banning of so-called offensive Mohammed comments as hate speech, I think the PC culture is only going to get worse. Younger folks are more indoctrinated into believing free speech doesn't apply to hate speech, and hate speech can be a label you can apply to anything subjectively deemed offensive.

My thoughts exactly. Its going to just keep getting worse and worse, till you no longer have free speech.

Mjölnir
12-09-2018, 07:39 PM
Progressives (not traditional DEMS) want to punish or outright ban ANY speech 'deemed' offensive, and unfortunately that sentiment has to a degree spread into the mainstream military. Whether it's a "baby it's cold outside" song, Rudolph's harassment, or the EU's proposed banning of so-called offensive Mohammed comments as hate speech, I think the PC culture is only going to get worse. Younger folks are more indoctrinated into believing free speech doesn't apply to hate speech, and hate speech can be a label you can

Two guys in a cubicle may be having a conversation between them, if someone on the other side of the cube wall can hear it and it is offensive based on a 'reasonable person' standard ... it isn't okay. I think many folks are mixing / blurring the waters and only thinking of 'extreme PC' or 'extreme offensive'; neither is acceptable in a work environment.

Agree that many today are being taught that anything offensive is 'hate speech' and the incorrect idea that hate speech is not protected under the 1st Amendment. At the same time, too many people think that the 1st Amendment means they can say anything, anytime, anywhere ... which also isn't correct ... at least per the Supreme Court. Mainly this applies to obscenity or 'fighting words' (search for Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) and most of the things that I would remind someone isn't permitted at work falls into this category and frankly on company time / dime ... the company can set the tone for what type of work environment they want. Google, Facebook, Twitter seem to have gone progressive dominant while there are plenty of environments that are conservative dominant.

I would never tell someone not to discuss politics or religion at work, but I would say that those two subjects almost always end up with hyper polarized positions which is frankly why I avoid discussing them at all. Unfortunately, more problematic that people thinking anything progressive is PC or anything conservative is racist is the inability of people to have an intelligent discussion with someone who has an opposing view ... this is really why we are where we are.

FLAPS
12-10-2018, 11:35 AM
Two guys in a cubicle may be having a conversation between them, if someone on the other side of the cube wall can hear it and it is offensive based on a 'reasonable person' standard ... it isn't okay. I think many folks are mixing / blurring the waters and only thinking of 'extreme PC' or 'extreme offensive'; neither is acceptable in a work environment.

Agree that many today are being taught that anything offensive is 'hate speech' and the incorrect idea that hate speech is not protected under the 1st Amendment. At the same time, too many people think that the 1st Amendment means they can say anything, anytime, anywhere ... which also isn't correct ... at least per the Supreme Court. Mainly this applies to obscenity or 'fighting words' (search for Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) and most of the things that I would remind someone isn't permitted at work falls into this category and frankly on company time / dime ... the company can set the tone for what type of work environment they want. Google, Facebook, Twitter seem to have gone progressive dominant while there are plenty of environments that are conservative dominant.

I would never tell someone not to discuss politics or religion at work, but I would say that those two subjects almost always end up with hyper polarized positions which is frankly why I avoid discussing them at all. Unfortunately, more problematic that people thinking anything progressive is PC or anything conservative is racist is the inability of people to have an intelligent discussion with someone who has an opposing view ... this is really why we are where we are.

Great post, and I completely agree with you.